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Zero energy ready homes are coming

energy.gov

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Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#201

Post by johnweldon »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #188
johnweldon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, people will always choose to spend money living as close to their ideal as they can, with the resources they are able to give toward it. The fact that so many people choose to live in suburbs, or the "sticks", suggests that there is something desirable to _them_ about living there. I.e. the same spending power required to live in a house in the suburbs, or rurally, could usually be used to live in…

> The fact that so many people choose to live in suburbs, or the "sticks", suggests that there is something desirable to _them_ about living there. A major reason for the preference is the lower price per square foot in the suburbs than in higher density areas. They can't afford that much space in the city, which in turn is so expensive because the amount of high density housing is artificially limited by zoning. You…

> A major reason for the preference is the lower price per square foot in the suburbs than in higher density areas.

I think that's a big part of it, but also people choose suburbs and rural living for reasons more to do with quality of life rather than cost.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#202

Post by hcurtiss »

G_z9 wrote: post #185
Syonyk wrote: post #28

When you've confused "per kWh cost" with "energy to the house delivery costs," this sort of stuff sounds good on paper, but it doesn't fundamentally solve the problem that in the winter, homes use a lot more energy than they can generate, and in the spring/fall, they will generate a lot more energy than they need. I've got a large ground mount solar install I put in a few years ago (15.9kW nameplate, though mostly ea…

If you had a modern well insulated house you could heat your house with a hair drier in the dead of winter in climate zone 5. If your stacking up to 4mwh then your house is not really a good example.

I have a modern well-insulated house (built three years ago) in Zone 4. There is no universe I heat it with a hair drier.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#203

Post by coffeebeqn »

Syonyk wrote: post #56
ajross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't fundamentally solve the problem that [...] Is that the "fundamental" problem being solved, though? Or is it just an externality that needs to be addressed? It seems like the "fundamental" problem here is trying to maximize deployment of renewable generation, and that construction like this is a great step in that direction. (Not the least of which because it pushes the investment required onto consumers…

> But that's not an argument against PV solar... It can certainly be an argument against residential rooftop solar. In general, "industrial solar" (ground mount, high voltage strings, single axis trackers) is sub-$1/W installed. Residential rooftop solar is still $2.50-$4/W depending on where you are, because it has quite a few additional requirements (per-panel rapid shutdown in NEC 2017, various other requirements…

That’s solvable by batteries. Of course there are tradeoffs like extra cost

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#204

Post by rootusrootus »

themitigating wrote: post #79
Syonyk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this is dependent on highways and new roads, new electrical, water, and sewage infrastructure. If you're 20 miles outside a town, you almost certainly have electrical service, but are on a well and septic system. City water and sewer doesn't make sense at those sort of densities. You also probably have the land to easily put a nice ground mount PV array in, and grow a good bit of your own food, should you ca…

I don't think this is the case for suburbs, at least for water. Septic tanks are used I think

Suburbs are often on city utilities. And they pay for the infrastructure. You won't generally find septic systems on properties under about an acre. Not that it never happens, obviously, but a septic field has geographic requirements that means you won't often see it in a suburban neighborhood.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#205

Post by rootusrootus »

xthrown1 wrote: post #193
richwater wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Maybe you are fine living in a shoebox with 1,000 other people in a single building, but we shouldn't normalize it.

[flagged]

> Right now you're forcing me to pay for your fetishes.

Popular claim made without sourcing any facts.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#206

Post by ChuckMcM »

This would be more effective if California would force its energy suppliers (PG&E, SCE, Etc.) to offset watts for watts on Solar installs. They won't because people like me would then no longer pay for electricity.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#207

Post by rootusrootus »

xputer wrote: post #113
IncRnd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this is dependent on highways and new roads, new electrical, water, and sewage infrastructure. This is all very expensive to build and maintain, and the cities and municipalities are left to foot the bill. That's not generally how this works. There aren't necessarily highways and new paved roads going to rural properties. Electrical service isn't only downtown in cities but for miles outside of them or from…

[flagged]

Your points require a very specific definition of suburban. Many cities in the western US are almost 100% suburban, but if that gets brought up the goalposts move.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#208

Post by DoreenMichele »

Contrary to what I am seeing in comments on HN, this is not just for single family detached housing. If you go to the ZERH website, under Program Requirements it says:

Versions 1 and 2, Single Family, Multifamily, and Manufactured Homes

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home...

Additionally, one of the photos in the featured article has the following caption:

Lopez Community Land Trust built this 561-square-foot affordable home on Lopez Island, Washington, to the high-performance criteria of DOE's Zero Energy Ready Home program that delivers a $20-per-month average monthly energy bill.

I've said for years we need to go back to more passive solar design as our baseline standard because it is both more energy efficient and more comfortable for humans. It protects the environment while improving quality of life.

It's a myth that you can't see gains in both areas.

I'm also happy to see the caption because we need to do a better job of supporting high quality of life in small towns, not just big cities. Trends in recent decades mean small towns suck because they lack services and big cities suck if you aren't one of the wealthy.

That wasn't always true and programs like this can improve and strengthen both small town and urban environments while mitigating the burden suburbs currently represent.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#210

Post by coffeebeqn »

Symbiote wrote: post #116
jonfw wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we expect industry to take up the excess, than either 1. that industry will only operate according to the weather or 2. We'll still need some variable power generation that can be switched on when wind or solar isn't producing enough

A few industrial users can weather changes in supply, with notice of the expected price in advance. The aluminium smelter can heat to x+250°, let things cool to x° while people cook their evening meal, then heat up again afterwards. A large supermarket chain can set their refrigerators to 5°, but by allowing the range to move between 3° and 7° can save significant power. (One of the big British supermarkets already d…

You don’t really get any more Solar after dinner. If everyone gets a big battery (expensive) then they could slowly offload the charge overnight but that would need to make financial sense to the house owners somehow.

At a minimum you’d need to recuperate the wear on the battery as they all have a finite amount of cycles

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