Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments • Hacker News Board

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#201

Post by nradov » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

lasermike026 wrote: post #173

toast0 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car may be an environmental disaster, but I don't see how it's an engineering disaster? It fulfils the desire to go from point A to point B in relative comfort at relative speed, at reasonable cost that scales to the local economy. US market cars tend to have lots of extraneous features and not be suitable for rugged roads; less developed economies get models with fewer comfort features, but a more robust suspens…

There is no way for a human to operate a car safely over a mid to long period of time. The human brain does not have bandwidth to process all the information taken in while driving a car. Eventual the driver will get into an accident with a high probability of injury and possibly death. Cars are designed to filter information from the environment. A driver can't sense what is around them. Cars are too big and too hea…

Just because you're not a competent driver doesn't mean the rest of us are getting into accidents. Walking, biking, and public transit are great options for short trips with limited cargo. But none of those options are going to be viable in my lifetime for getting my daughter to a volleyball tournament 40 miles away at 7:00 AM on Saturday. Including hauling backpacks, folding chairs, boxes of snacks for the team, etc.

I've noticed that the arrogant and condescending people who are most opposed to cars tend to be childless young urbanites with very limited life experience. The rest of the country operates in a completely different way, and votes accordingly.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#202

Post by toast0 » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

lasermike026 wrote: post #173

toast0 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car may be an environmental disaster, but I don't see how it's an engineering disaster? It fulfils the desire to go from point A to point B in relative comfort at relative speed, at reasonable cost that scales to the local economy. US market cars tend to have lots of extraneous features and not be suitable for rugged roads; less developed economies get models with fewer comfort features, but a more robust suspens…

There is no way for a human to operate a car safely over a mid to long period of time. The human brain does not have bandwidth to process all the information taken in while driving a car. Eventual the driver will get into an accident with a high probability of injury and possibly death. Cars are designed to filter information from the environment. A driver can't sense what is around them. Cars are too big and too hea…

> There is no way for a human to operate a car safely over a mid to long period of time.

My observed injury rate per vehicle mile, per trip, or per time spent, in a car is much lower than the same rates on a bicycle. Incidentally, my largest injury on a bike was due to street car rails, so thanks public transit for making the roads less safe for bicycling. I can't count the number of times I've tripped while walking, resulting in mostly minor injuries, but nevertheless more injuries than I've sustained in automobiles (not counting violence from siblings). Lack of safety restraints on public transit mean more minor injuries from sudden stops as well.

> Cars are too big and too heavy

Autorickshaws are much smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient. Plus they're cute!

> Infrastructure demands are too great

Infrastructure demands for cars scale. You can use cars if you can get fuel to enough fueling stations and have cleared trees and other obstacles from paths. Pavement is optional but encouraged. Parking lots are nice to have, but any cleared space works. You don't get a lot of speed, and probably not much fuel efficiency, but it works. Paved roads are nicer, and they get built because they're useful. Of course, busses and bicycles like paved roads too (paving for bikes requires a lot lower standard too).

If you can't get fuel to fueling stations, there's things like wood gasifiers[1], although gasoline and diesel are much more scalable if the infrastructure is present.

> Walking, biking, and public transit in a livable community is the only rational way forward.

This would severely limit the scope of livable communities. Or at least significantly increase transit time for many to most activities. Those are all great options, when available and appropriate, but a lot of times it's not the best mode of transportation and often it's not even appropriate. The diversity of origin/destination pairs in most metropolitan areas of a certain size makes it very hard for most users to be served by direct public transit routes, and hub and spoke routing makes a lot of trips turn into first go 30 minutes in the wrong direction, then 30 minutes in the right direction, when a point to point automobile trip would be much less time.

I can't imagine some of my recent trips working well with public transit. Especially those trips where I'm carrying sports equipment for multiple people not traveling with me. How do you take three or four sets of hockey gear on a bicycle, or walking the half mile uphill from the bus stop to my home?

[1] https://www.amusingplanet.com/2022/02/wood-gas-vehicles-cars...

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#203

Post by GulpGulp » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

Car boots are going to have a whole new market

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#204

Post by astura » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #53

motohagiography wrote: post #41

I work in security and anti-fraud is the use case of last resort for terrible ideas. When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. The reason we have laws is so that peo…

> A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. Nothing prevents that from happening now, though. I'm also uncertain how reclaiming the collateral for the loan is any different in this scenario. Granted, I think this is extraordinarily gross and consumer-host…

Repos are extremely costly. My friend let his car get repossessed because he did not need it anymore thinking that was easier than selling it and there wouldn't be any negatives other than on his credit. He was surprised to get sued for the cost of the repo, which was thousands plus they managed to sell the car for much less than it was worth.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#205

Post by kube-system » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

20after4 wrote: post #188

lotsofpulp wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would assume that either the only game in town is Honda or that all the other manufacturers are colluding with Honda. Absent significant evidence, it is safer to assume people’s preferences are causing the lower sales.

Where I live, all of the major new car dealerships are owned by the same company. No I'm not making this up: https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/business/2014/10/02/w...

It's not hard in a small market. Often, large dealership chains don't put all their eggs in one brand basket. It works the same way in other cities, but larger cities can support multiple dealers of the same brand.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#206

Post by lostapathy » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:09 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #148

motohagiography wrote: post #41

I work in security and anti-fraud is the use case of last resort for terrible ideas. When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. The reason we have laws is so that peo…

> When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. The title stays with the lender until all the payments are made per the loan agreement. I would not say the vehicle legally belongs to a borrower until they have possession of the title. > The reason we have laws is so that people have recourse to principle, whereas when you implement something like this in hardware (a car), i…

> The title stays with the lender until all the payments are made per the loan agreement.

This varies a lot by state. A lot (most?) states the title absolutely goes to the purchaser but it has a lien attached that gives the lender rights of repossession.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#207

Post by IncRnd » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

At first I thought that this is a really odd business differentiator.

Then I realized this is meant for lenders. Ford has a credit and leasing company, which might be the actual target of this. The rest is superfluous.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#208

Post by tough » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

daveslash wrote: post #146

carlmr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little do they know, I might not be thrifty. But I still have my ol' F150.

And my tractor tole' me I don't matter, ever since John Deere told me to Steer clear, from them old repairs. Used to be, you could fix'em for free, now it's all John Deere IP. Edit: And Monsanto, don't you know, told me ya'best not go, usin' your own seeds. ( no joke folks, I think there's some real potential for a satire country song here, I'm thinkin' by a Jonathan Coulton type singer )

I had to ask ChatGPT to write one

Verse 1: My truck was my pride and joy, it was my everything But now it's gone, and I'm feeling the sting Ford said I couldn't pay, so they took it away And now I'm left here, with nothing to say

Chorus: My truck done left me, and my heart is broke I'm just a heartbroken man, and it ain't no joke But I'll find a way to get back on my feet And maybe someday, my truck and I will meet

Verse 2: Elon says I'm lazy, but he don't know me I worked hard every day, but still couldn't keep my truck, you see Folks told me to learn to code, but that ain't for me I just want my truck back, and to be free

Chorus: My truck done left me, and my heart is broke I'm just a heartbroken man, and it ain't no joke But I'll find a way to get back on my feet And maybe someday, my truck and I will meet

Verse 3: My tractor used to be my trusty steed But John Deere said I couldn't fix it, no indeed Used to be, I could do it all myself But now it's all about John Deere's wealth

Chorus: My truck done left me, and my heart is broke I'm just a heartbroken man, and it ain't no joke But I'll find a way to get back on my feet And maybe someday, my truck and I will meet

Verse 4: Monsanto told me not to plant my own seeds But I didn't listen, and now I'm in need Of some help, to get back on my feet But I won't give up, no, not me

Chorus: My truck done left me, and my heart is broke I'm just a heartbroken man, and it ain't no joke But I'll find a way to get back on my feet And maybe someday, my truck and I will meet

Outro: My truck may be gone, but I still have my pride And I won't let anyone, take that away inside I'll find a way to make it right And maybe someday, my truck will be back in sight.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#209

Post by lostapathy » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #190

motohagiography wrote: post #41

I work in security and anti-fraud is the use case of last resort for terrible ideas. When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. The reason we have laws is so that peo…

>When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. This is not true - In my state you don't get mailed the title to the car until after the loan is paid.

You don’t get mailed the title, but it’s your name on the title that the state holds (whether on title or electronically). So you don’t have the ability to sell it directly, you still own and are responsible for it.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#210

Post by chongli » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #204

nkozyra wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. Nothing prevents that from happening now, though. I'm also uncertain how reclaiming the collateral for the loan is any different in this scenario. Granted, I think this is extraordinarily gross and consumer-host…

Repos are extremely costly. My friend let his car get repossessed because he did not need it anymore thinking that was easier than selling it and there wouldn't be any negatives other than on his credit. He was surprised to get sued for the cost of the repo, which was thousands plus they managed to sell the car for much less than it was worth.

I wonder how costly it would be if one of these self-driving cars killed a bystander while repo-ing itself.