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Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

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Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#201

Post by JohnFen »

grishka wrote: post #127
kornhole wrote: post #29

Sometimes it feels ridiculous how much OPSEC I need to employ to buy anything at the grocery store. I walk or bike to the store to not reveal a license plate. All radios and sensors on my handset are turned off. I wear a mask to thwart facial recognition cameras. I pay cash.

But if you block ads and third-party cookies, which I'm 146% you do with this mindset, that data collection is of no use either way.

I don't understand...

What does blocking ads and third-party cookies have to do with it? How does doing that affect the usefulness of real-world data collection?

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#202

Post by JohnFen »

cfeduke wrote: post #7
rationalist wrote: post #3

And that's why I pay cash and use Jenny's Number with the local area code for the store discount program. I know Target also tracks your cellphone through the store too, I haven't bothered putting in airplane mode when I shop, so hopefully they aren't correlating that with the purchases.

This is fine, but it's not really about tracking you , it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) The only viable solution that comes to mind is to shop at places that don't perform this sort of tracking/loyalty card/etc. and continue to pay in cash. The only stores around me that fit this bil…

> it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant.

I don't think this is accurate, but it doesn't matter. Even if that's true, it may not be true with the companies they sell or share the data to.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#203

Post by nanidin »

breakpointalpha wrote: post #173
nanidin wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your threat model? Are you buying incriminating goods at the grocery store? What do you gain by putting yourself through all that? Or what are you preventing / protecting yourself from?

A free person shouldn't have to articulate why they need privacy. Privacy should be the default in free societies. I can play this game though: you are pregnant, but have not shared that information yet with your family because it's early term and there might be complications. The grocery store accurately predicts you are pregnant from your shopping habits (change in diet, per-natal vitamins, "New Mommy Magazine"). T…

The commenter I responded to initially wrote as if they actively seek anonymity by taking several inconvenient steps every time they shop, even when they presumably have nothing to hide. I wanted to understand what drove that behavior and if it was worth it.

They don't have to articulate it, but inability to articulate might be a sign of overcautiousness / paranoia that is having a negative impact on their life.

If one has something to hide - then sure, take extra steps to be anon. Otherwise, why put yourself through so much trouble?

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#204

Post by bjtitus »

teeray wrote: post #195
JohnFen wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personalized Dynamic Pricing The very idea is just revolting.

and probably very illegal

Absolutely, this seems illegal on several levels.

At least one good thing about supermarket oligopolies is that they'll need to abide by the strictest unit pricing state laws for the region they operate in.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#205

Post by JohnFen »

account-5 wrote: post #6
rationalist wrote: post #3

And that's why I pay cash and use Jenny's Number with the local area code for the store discount program. I know Target also tracks your cellphone through the store too, I haven't bothered putting in airplane mode when I shop, so hopefully they aren't correlating that with the purchases.

You should be alright if Bluetooth and WiFi are off. Unless you think they're spoofing a cell tower.

I am not aware of any stores that use anything other than BT or WiFi. But if they wanted to spoof a cell tower, it's certainly not technically hard. You can buy a device to do it for a few hundred dollars. It's very illegal, of course.

But if they wanted to use your cell emissions for tracking, they wouldn't even need to spoof anything at all. They'd just have to passively listen to your phone talking with real towers.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#206

Post by IshKebab »

michael1999 wrote: post #112

I wouldn't mind so much if they also gave it to me. But my grocery points card sells my shopping list to everyone else BUT me. I've looked, and PC Optimum doesn't provide line items back to the consumer. So rude. Just like Experian and friends. Keeping detailed notes on me, and acting all surprised when I want to read them. It's like they are embarrassed I actually exist.

GDPR should allow you to access that data.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#207

Post by JohnFen »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #135
theironhammer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edward Snowden revealed that u need to remove the battery on ur phone to make it "safe", turning it off doesn't do the trick. [Which u can't do anymore]. As another commenter says: leave the phone at home.

Airplane mode has to be able to make it zero-emissions due to FAA regulations, right?

The FAA no longer prohibits this stuff, although the airlines still have their own restrictions.

The FAA also only ever had rulemaking about BT and WiFi, because the use of the cell transmitter in flight is prohibited by the FCC, not the FAA. I don't know what the FCC's rules are, precisely.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#208

Post by autoexec »

teeray wrote: post #195
JohnFen wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personalized Dynamic Pricing The very idea is just revolting.

and probably very illegal

Not illegal yet. Read the paper, stores have already been trying versions of it and it's being used in some industries already. Airlines have been playing with it for ages, which is how you can get very different prices online depending on things like which browser you are using. (https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/are-airlines-raising-y...). It's not transparent to the consumer when it's happening so you may never realize you're being ripped off.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#209

Post by autoexec »

bjtitus wrote: post #204
teeray wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and probably very illegal

Absolutely, this seems illegal on several levels. At least one good thing about supermarket oligopolies is that they'll need to abide by the strictest unit pricing state laws for the region they operate in.

It's not illegal today. Grocery stores have already been testing it and it's common in other industries.

> For example, ZipRecruiter, an online employment marketplace, indicates that it could increase profits by 84% by experimenting with personalized prices (Wallheimer 2018). Other players, such as travel sites (e.g., Orbitz, HotelTonight; DeAmicis 2015; Mattioli 2012), retailers (e.g., Amazon.com, Home Depot, Staples; Streitfeld 2000; Val-entino-DeVries et al. 2012), and even grocery stores (e.g., Safeway; Clifford 2012) have also reportedly begun implementing personalized prices for their customers based on individual characteristics.

Here's an article on one grocery store's early efforts: https://risnews.com/safeway-offers-personalized-pricing-prog...

This is all just another means to get people accept that prices should be allowed to vary on an individual basis. I'd very much like for this to be illegal, but companies stand to make money hand over fist so I doubt it will happen.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#210

Post by JohnFen »

Zetice wrote: post #200
JohnFen wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to prove that all of that extra effort is worth the degraded quality of life. No, nobody has to prove any such thing. This isn't an important issue to you -- that's fair. It is to others -- that's fair too. You say "worth the degraded quality of life", but in my view, the degraded quality of life is always being under surveillance. Taking these measures improves my quality of life. What I sacrifice is just…

You haven't justified the claim that "always being under surveillance" is categorically a bad thing. If you refuse to do that, you're kind of breaking the social contract around communication. Why share this belief if you can't defend it? And what you sacrifice is a lot of convenience, and a wholesale rejection by the very society you rely heavily on to survive. It's not tenable to live in this society and wear a ski…

> You haven't justified the claim that "always being under surveillance" is categorically a bad thing.

I don't have to. It's sufficient for me to say that I strongly dislike it.

> Why share this belief if you can't defend it?

Why do you think this is something that needs defending?

Regardless, I think I have adequately defended it. It's an intrusion into my life that I don't consent to and I find highly objectionable. The reason I find it objectionable is exactly the same as the reason I object to someone following me around writing down everything I do, or peering into my windows at home.

> And what you sacrifice is a lot of convenience, and a wholesale rejection by the very society you rely heavily on to survive.

Neither of those things are true at all. I do not feel greatly inconvenienced, and I fully participate in society.

> It's not tenable to live in this society and wear a ski mask while shopping in a grocery store.

I agree. I don't do that. That said, if I'm aware that a store is engaging in facial recognition, I will choose to shop at a store that doesn't.

That, too, is engaging in the society I live in.

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