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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#201

Post by nequo »

api wrote: post #136
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software. Apple does sell real computers under the Mac line.

iOS devices are running a derivative of straight up macOS that your MacBook is running too. As computers, they are as real as any.

The "only run approved software" part is a restriction imposed by Apple. It is not because of a physical limitation that makes them not real computers.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#202

Post by [deleted] »

dkarl wrote: post #75
mmastrac wrote: post #14

I wrote an Android app for my little programming news aggregator, and published that on the Play Store because it was basically free (IIRC there might be a one-time signup fee). $99/yr is a ridiculous sum for the "privilege" of publishing in Apple's walled garden, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. The arguments for paying for review, distribution, advertising, search, etc feel so disingenuous when the co…

> these apps are contributing to its bottom line Are they, though? If you don't have the $99 for a dev account, you don't have a marketing budget either, so your app won't make money, so Apple doesn't care. I think the best argument to be made for catering to hobbyists is to attract new developers to the platform, but I doubt Apple cares about that any more. Apple wants developers who care about making money. Develop…

[deleted]

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#203

Post by scosman »

flohofwoe wrote: post #186
KerrAvon wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

I actually mean all the little Vista-style popups that recent macOS versions introduced, on top of the quarantine and notarization bullshit which gets harder to skip in each release. Just give me a simple checkbox in the system settings that this is a "developer machine and I know what I'm doing" which disables all that stuff and it would be fine.

Malware teams would loooooove that checkbox.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#204

Post by brewdad »

gretch wrote: post #119
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

My philosophy is that Apple can do whatever they want (as long as legal and ethical). They made a thing, and you bought it. Why would anyone with a bent on free computing walk into what they know to be a closed ecosystem. Just buy an Android phone. It’s like flying to a foreign country and expecting everyone to English to you imo…

I finally bought an iPhone because I grew tired of all the tinkering I either had to do (or oftentimes just could do) to customize and secure my Android phone. Also, it seemed like no matter how much I spent on one, it would lose support within 2 years.

My phone is an appliance. I need it to provide 2 way communications and access to the information on the internet. Apple will provide security updates for the foreseeable future. That's all I want as I enter curmudgeonly old man age.

But yeah, I know I bought a locked down device and I'm ok with that. BMW is charging a subscription for heated seats. I'm not ok with that, so won't be buying one. Obviously, they expect some people still will. I agree with them.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#206

Post by forevergreenyon »

the future of interaction with computers is not programming languages but App stores. Want to print "hello world" in your terminal? gotta buy the app, or be 'subscribed' to your operating system.

Gotta get ready to have to pay a 'microtransaction fee' to edit one image one time in my own computer. While also paying a subscription for: the hardware, the electricity, the internet, the operating system/app store, and finally (coming soon) each click (or however the most profit is made) on the actual app/program for image editing.

not looking forward to getting triple (then quadruple, and so on until we revolt?) charged (hardware, electricity, internet) for doing things with "my own" computer. then again, it's just like taxes.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#207

Post by mywittyname »

JasonFruit wrote: post #4

> I should be thankful they don’t make me pay a yearly developer fee for making python apps on my Macbook. Apple exec scribbles furiously

I doubt we are far from this.

From what I've seen, a lot of startup are Mac-only - with the local dev stack and built system being built specifically for OSX. It's only a matter of time before vendor lock-in become so strong that companies would pay another four-figure a year fee to unlock development on OSX.

Apple could sell the security angle on this too.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#208

Post by lnenad »

ozim wrote: post #161
bragr wrote: post #24

I doubt this is "Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps", so much as "Apple doesn’t want dev accounts to be an easy backdoor for sideloading apps" and hobby apps are an acceptable casualty.

I would say "Apple doesn’t want dev accounts to be an easy backdoor for trash apps". It is all about quality of the app store. Downside is that I see bunch of corporate apps that are total trash on app store.

This is a wrong take as these apps have nothing to do with the app store.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#209

Post by closeparen »

angryasian wrote: post #185
closeparen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up at a time when a computer was a thing that any website you accidentally clicked on could totally and permanently hijack. I don't miss it. One-click zero-friction execution of arbitrary code with the full privileges of your user account was a bad and wrong design. Malware scanning, signatures, and heuristics were a hilariously inadequate answer to the risks. One of the best things that's ever happened in com…

let not be naive in saying that its still not possible. It is but a lot less. Companies have been getting better at bug bounties, education, and in general people working more with the technology

A huge part of the improvement has been sandboxing, code signing, and trusted distribution channels.

In the Windows XP era, a freeware game or utility you downloaded turning out to be a virus was 100% your fault. It wasn’t a defect in Windows that your whole computer got owned, that was just how computers worked. Crazy to me that people want to go back there.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#210

Post by jackmott42 »

The way apple is dominating computing hardware with closed, user hostile software may lead to a generation of kids that are worse at programming than the previous generation for the first time. They will be growing up tapping not typing, on devices that are hostile to any kind of creative work. Sad state of affairs when Apple could have made just as much money without doing this.
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