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Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

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Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#201

Post by Denatonium »

triceratops wrote: post #161
pembrook wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There's so much funny business that goes on with FX rates that it makes me almost pro-crypto. Even the people who claim to offer raw spot market rates (ie. Interactive Brokers), in fact do not offer that. I would not be surprised in Visa & Mastercard do the same--although they claim otherwise.

Come to think of it, would Visa/MC be doing the conversion? I believe that's the issuing bank's job. But they offer the rewards, not Visa/MC, so it doesn't change the original answer much.

When I took my Schwab debit card to Europe, the exchange rates that I got were identical to the ones posted on Visa's website, suggesting that it's Visa doing the ForEx conversions.

A lot of banks do charge a percentage fee on top of Visa/MC's exchange rate, but my bank does not.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#202

Post by stanislavb »

sschueller wrote: post #48

In Switzerland Stripe is already 2.9% + CHF0.30 which is higher than the new rate in the EU. If you want a local solution that also can do Twint (Swiss p2p payments) without extra contracts then I would recommend you try Payrexx[1]. Per transaction fees are also less than what Stripe is charging although you have a monthly fixed fee. [1] https://www.payrexx.ch

Thanks. I'm wondering, are you affiliated with Payrexx?

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#203

Post by conductr »

avianlyric wrote: post #163
kmlx wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don’t see high value reward cards or cashback program in the EU. this seems like a false statement. here is an article from 2021 that highlights some of the numerous cashback offers: https://medium.com/@danminea/best-cashback-cards-with-reward... and Amex usually has cashback cards as well. disclaimer: i have used some of these cashback cards both in the EU and outside of it.

From the very article you link too, about three paragraphs in: > Why then are there so few and apart offers for cashback cards that can be used in Europe? > > One explanation I’ve seen is this: they’re not so common in the EU because our debit/credit card fees are regulated and very low.

This is the answer. In the US the business essentially funds the rewards these cards provide because they can charge whatever interchange fee that card has decided.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#204

Post by gnicholas »

Laaas wrote: post #30

> Dispute fees (also known as chargebacks) will increase from €15 to €20. Due to costs for managing dispute evidence submissions (regardless of outcome), we'll no longer refund this fee if the customer's bank resolves the dispute in your favor. > If you or your users have an account located in an EEA country that has not adopted the Euro, here are the fixed fees of €20 in local currencies: Bulgaria: ЛВ40; Czech Repub…

They're claiming that it costs them 20 euros to manage evidence that the merchant uploads? What does this process entail, other than forwarding that evidence on to the customer's bank?

I find the dispute fees to be high already, since a customer can initiate a dispute with near-zero effort, but then I have to run around and gather evidence showing that their claim (for which they have to provide zero evidence) is not true. If someone has a subscription with me and it's renewed for several years, and then they decide they don't want it anymore (but don't tell us), they can initiate a "fraud" claim with their bank, which means that I have to prove it wasn't someone else who used their card — with their email address — to set up the account years ago.

I have usually been able to email the customer, ask if/when they asked to terminate their account, and submit that as evidence that no request was made prior to the fraud allegation.

But there should be a higher standard for the initial claim (some evidence should be required, which would at least ensure that claims are correctly categorized as "third party fraud" versus "I forgot this was a subscription").

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#205

Post by Cyph0n »

Denatonium wrote: post #201
triceratops wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to think of it, would Visa/MC be doing the conversion? I believe that's the issuing bank's job. But they offer the rewards, not Visa/MC, so it doesn't change the original answer much.

When I took my Schwab debit card to Europe, the exchange rates that I got were identical to the ones posted on Visa's website, suggesting that it's Visa doing the ForEx conversions. A lot of banks do charge a percentage fee on top of Visa/MC's exchange rate, but my bank does not.

Schwab and Fidelity debit cards are the only ones that do this AFAIK. In addition, you get unlimited ATM fee rebates, even outside the US. I’ve stopped taking cash home and instead withdraw from my Schwab account :)

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#206

Post by gnicholas »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #172

> Dispute fees (also known as chargebacks) will increase from €15 to €20. We’ll also no longer refund this fee if the customer’s bank resolves the dispute in your favor, due to the costs Stripe incurs for managing dispute evidence submissions (regardless of the outcome). Is Stripe testing dispute fees for all chargebacks out in EU before rolling out in the US? 1) This is gonna be bad for NGOs 2) So now people can jus…

I wondered if it's a practice run for the US, although it's possible the process for "managing dispute evidence submissions" is more involved in the EU. They seem to do next to nothing in the US — just forward the docs you upload to the customer bank, I assume.

I agree with 2 — this would be really bad if a business were targeted with chargebacks. There would need to be some defensive mechanism that kicks in and retroactively refunds all these fees in such cases.

I also wonder if this is just a way to pump up their margins in advance of an IPO.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#207

Post by chrismorgan »

IshKebab wrote: post #83
Timshel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish those transaction cost would be made visible. Imo the seller should not care which card the client use, if it's more expensive to use a "premium" card then it should be made visible to the client and he should be the one to pay the overhead.

Yes this is all that needs to happen. The EU should mandate that sellers can pass transaction costs on to consumers if they want (but no more than transaction costs, looking at you airlines).

Australia has exactly this rule.

One influence in the setting of this rule was that payment card processors had been throwing their weight around requiring that merchants not pass on cost, which was fairly clearly an abuse of their position of power. (For most in-person business, which was largely what was being dealt with at the time, cash is essentially costless, and so for some small businesses being forced to swallow payment card fees was genuinely an unreasonable burden.)

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#208

Post by segmondy »

poxrud wrote: post #190

Stripe stopped being competitive when they began keeping all of the transaction fees, including a percentage of the entire transaction, when issuing refunds. A customer changed their mind... well you just lost a lot of money.

Imagine you sold a product on the internet, you paid Fedex to ship it. Your customer decides they don't want your product anymore. You refund them their money, but then you have to refund them the shipping cost. Not just the cost to ship it to them, but they want you to handle the return for free. Yeah, that costs money. Transaction fees are not free. Stripe doesn't own the credit card network.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#209

Post by poxrud »

segmondy wrote: post #208
poxrud wrote: post #190

Stripe stopped being competitive when they began keeping all of the transaction fees, including a percentage of the entire transaction, when issuing refunds. A customer changed their mind... well you just lost a lot of money.

Imagine you sold a product on the internet, you paid Fedex to ship it. Your customer decides they don't want your product anymore. You refund them their money, but then you have to refund them the shipping cost. Not just the cost to ship it to them, but they want you to handle the return for free. Yeah, that costs money. Transaction fees are not free. Stripe doesn't own the credit card network.

No that is incorrect. The credit card network returns most of the fees. They absolutely do not keep a percentage of the full amount. The credit card network might keep $0.3, but Stripe decided to keep the full 3-4%.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#210

Post by ComputerGuru »

conductr wrote: post #200
poxrud wrote: post #190

Stripe stopped being competitive when they began keeping all of the transaction fees, including a percentage of the entire transaction, when issuing refunds. A customer changed their mind... well you just lost a lot of money.

I agree but to be fair, that was always an expense to them. They just took it on the chin and used it as a competitive advantage/point of differentiation and it helped them grow. Especially makes sense as they initially targeted markets where software trials were being sold.

It's not and never was a "competitive advantage." The "real" existing players all returned the fees (modulo some fixed amount).
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