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1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#201

Post by matwood »

matsemann wrote: post #145
scott_w wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a common theme I see. People who know nothing about exercise take real medical things that happen to people who massively overtrain and assume it can happen to a regular unfit person exercising for 10 minutes a day. For the 3x20s intervals, the max effort of a person is far, far, below the max effort that, say, I can put out (as a trained cyclist). I strongly doubt the people doing this were actually push…

The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).

> often

Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common.

I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#202

Post by [deleted] »

xarope wrote: post #33
andy_ppp wrote: post #12

As I understand it the body has different energy systems- one that is aerobic and takes hours over months and years to train and anaerobic that all out short efforts can train. Everything in between these two is arguably time wasted. I think the title here is misleading and looking at another comment it’s not what the paper says, “it improved insulin sensitivity and other indices of cardio-metabolic health”.

There is plenty of literature to show the body has 3 main energy systems (phosphagen, glycolytic - aka anaerobic, and mitochondrial respiration aka aerobic), and many activities are a combination of all these energy systems. Further, doing pure anaerobic activities without warmups (which are more aerobic in nature) would increase injury risk; whilst low intensity/aerobic oriented activities have been shown to improve…

[deleted]

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#203

Post by PaulHoule »

fsloth wrote: post #161
stabbles wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have references for this? My understanding is that low heart rate training is still standard for elite endurance athletes.

How many people benefitting from more exercise are elite endurance athletes?

You might not want to emulate elite endurance athletes in that they get too much of a good thing…. That kind of training puts you at risk of atrial fibrillation.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#204

Post by waboremo »

waynenilsen wrote: post #181
cycomanic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

I would also add that hit has a better chance of improving overall metabolic health raising resting metabolic rate and allowing you to eat more in the long run. Short run, low and slow will increase total daily expected expenditure but hit is a better long term investment.

Eating more in the long run doesn't seem like a better long term investment, especially when eating more for a lot of people results in making less optimal food choices and in turn bad habits. These bad habits can become exponentially bad as you age and start facing a lot of challenging events.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#205

Post by karpichoge »

cycomanic wrote: post #84
petesergeant wrote: post #23

It's 8 minutes, not one minute The people in the study were out of shape to start with The improved measures were insulin sensitivity index, peak oxygen uptake, and "skeletal muscle mitochondrial content" No change in body mass In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over…

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

> training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-10 years

Not by drastically changing their plans to reduce the hours and do HIIT instead.

Endurance training is what you do in endurance sports. A long distance runner needs to put in the miles. Hours after hours of running. That's it. Cyclists are on their bike 5+ hours regularly. Rowers do 10 sessions of 2+ hours a week, only few of them at high intensity. It's the hours that bring you the medal.

In fact, in order to be able to perform those long hours, endurance athletes typically force themselves to keep he intensity down. You can go hard for an hour or two, but then you need a rest day next day. You won't make it to the Olypics on 3-4 sessions a week though. So, you need to be smart and tune the intensity so that after your morning 2h distance piece you can actually meaningfully push some weights in the evening and be fit next morning for the next piece.

These 10-min HIIT "hacks" may be better for sedentary people than not doing anything at all. But they are not a silver bullet. To get anywhere, you need to put in the hours. No way around that.

Source: I joined the team that brought my brother to qualify for Rio in an endurance sport.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#206

Post by n8henrie »

cycomanic wrote: post #84
petesergeant wrote: post #23

It's 8 minutes, not one minute The people in the study were out of shape to start with The improved measures were insulin sensitivity index, peak oxygen uptake, and "skeletal muscle mitochondrial content" No change in body mass In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over…

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

If you have references handy I'd love to read more. Specifically, it sounds you're saying that there is evidence in recreationally trained athletes that less frequent HIIT improves [meaningful outcomes] equal to much longer and more frequent training durations of moderate intensity cardio.

I'm much more familiar with the evidence on strength training, where it seems that volume and intensity both have important roles. But at this point in my life, I no longer have the time to train as often as I'd like!

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#207

Post by eloff »

stabbles wrote: post #104
cycomanic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

Do you have references for this? My understanding is that low heart rate training is still standard for elite endurance athletes.

Training endurance is likely a very different regimen than training for most types of sports.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#208

Post by matsemann »

matwood wrote: post #201
matsemann wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).

> often Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common. I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.

> Citation needed.

But no citation needed from your personal experience of never seeing it..? I think you're reading waaaay too much into what I'm saying.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#209

Post by matsemann »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #154
scott_w wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a criticism of cross-fit specifically and not HIIT workouts in general. I'd personally not recommend this training to newcomers but that's because I think the study is total bunk, not because I'd be worried about an injury.

Crossfit is bad for most people for other reasons as well. For example, look at how they do pull-ups [1]. It's basically a fitness meme at this point - they use form that doesn't encourage general strength, just swinging around and putting pressure on the arm/shoulder joints on the way down, for the sake of increasing competition rep numbers. This seems utterly pointless unless you really care about winning Crossfit…

No, "most people" wont do that kind of pullups in crossfit. Yes, those doing competitions are optimizing for something else (reps) than general strength. But most of those doing crossfit actually focus on the general strength.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#210

Post by henrydark »

cycomanic wrote: post #84
petesergeant wrote: post #23

It's 8 minutes, not one minute The people in the study were out of shape to start with The improved measures were insulin sensitivity index, peak oxygen uptake, and "skeletal muscle mitochondrial content" No change in body mass In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over…

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

Unrelated, what if acronyms only contained adjectives and adverbs, and not nouns and verbs? I think we always eventually converge from something like "HIT" to "HIT training". Question for linguists
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