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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#201

Post by tptacek »

ot wrote: post #161
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

Those same arguments apply to several other professions where it is not customary to tip. The reality is that tips are expected only for the lower social/economic classes, where it is acceptable that the price for labor is set based on the whims of the customer instead of being pre-agreed (which, personally, I find degrading). Right-leaning people like it because it creates a power dynamic. Left-leaning people like i…

It's true that you can run any industry without tipping, but that's not really saying anything interesting, because you also demonstrably can run industries with tipping. I don't like tipping for the power dynamic or because I'm "helping the working class"; I just get the logic of it, and am fine playing along.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#202

Post by tptacek »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #199
tptacek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point: as the price declines, so too does the amount you pay in tips.

I also think the proportion of the tip should decline. They are doing a lot less work to give you the food, disproportionate with the small decrease in cost.

It's not clear to me why the proportion should decline alongside the price, since the decline in price also reduces compensation to the server, and a single prevailing tip rate is more convenient to consumers than a floating rate, but I don't care enough to make a stink about it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#203

Post by tptacek »

barbazoo wrote: post #189
tptacek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what optionality has to do with anything.

> tipping is in general a system that shifts some of the employer's costs to customers explicitly it's not explicit because no one knows what the total cost is that's being shifted to the consumer and how much of that is recouped by tipping.

Sure they do. It's 15-25% of the cost.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#204

Post by MuffinFlavored »

asdff wrote: post #140
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

Tipping for service is a little different than the tipping thats been getting out of control imo. Places are signing up for these square readers and whatever else is sold to small businesses to scan a credit card, and the default settings seem to be to add a tip. These would be jobs where the worker would never expect a tip normally, maybe a tip jar with a buck or two in it a shift if that. Plus you are expected to t…

i’ve ran into this at a smoothie shop

it’s implied you’re tipping for them taking your order then making your smoothie

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#205

Post by pseudo0 »

Insanity wrote: post #131
ntr-- wrote: post #83

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the cus…

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Tipping in Canada is extra absurd. The minimum wage for servers and bartenders is the same as for regular workers (eg. $15.50 per hour in Ontario). But thanks to cultural osmosis from the US, 15-25% tips are also expected on top of that.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#206

Post by temprose »

jacktribe wrote: post #182
bilsbie wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

Cash will tie up an additional employee behind the counter. One of the reasons we are able to not accept tips and pay fair wages instead, is because we don't need a person at the register. And while you can use that person for other tasks when there is no one in line, they do need to glove up each time they may handle a food item. Also, in LA cash is a safety issue if you plan on staying open late when traffic is low…

how does handling crypto work, do you exchange it for USD daily in order to avoid fluctuations in the value of crypto?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#207

Post by sunsetMurk »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

where's the coffee shop?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#208

Post by MuffinFlavored »

Swizec wrote: post #176
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

> The customer wouldn't like that. I’m already paying that much. If you keep the same total price but put it on your menu instead of making it an end-of-meal surprise, that is much preferred thanks.

I used ChatGPT to help talk through this with me:

> If the average waiter works a dinner shift from 5pm-11pm, waits on 40 customers during this shift, each customer has a check average of $40 and tips on average 20%, the waiter would walk with $320 in tips.

> In this example, the total cost of labor for the waiter is $55/hr for 6 hours, which is $55*6 = $330. The total number of customers served during the shift is 40.

> In order to eliminate the need for customers to tip, the restaurant would need to increase the cost of their food by $330 tips / 40 customers = $8.25 per check.

> Therefore, they would need to increase the cost of their food by $8.25, so that the check average would be $40 + $8.25 = $48.25 per check.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#210

Post by mbg721 »

alxmng wrote: post #209

Tipping in the US isn’t tipping. It’s a fee that’s not included in the price. You’re expected to “tip” a certain amount and employees can get quite upset if you don’t.

But over that expected amount, it's still tipping. It hasn't gotten too much out of control, except in Vegas.
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