Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a belief pervading society that criminals are not responsible for their own actions, that other things or people are responsible.
Moral questions aside, police have a lot more indemnity when chasing criminals than 2 brothers in a car hoping to make a citizen's arrest.
How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
201–210 of 225 posts
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
thanks for posting this insight, I would add that there are positive feedback loops from some parts of your behavior and would also counter the brother's conclusion that "sending an additional message never works" in these kinds of threads, everyone is already primed to the worst case toxic scenario, or some other uncollaborative toxic scenario, specifically from the idea of the lowest denominator man harassing women…
You must be tall, white or project a lot of status/coolness in your own instagram, because honestly this approach doesn't work for 99.9% of men that try (and it's not because of lack of trying!)
I’ve also messaged “thirst traps” from one of my meme/popular accounts to great effect. They don’t show me at all and nothing links it to my personal one. People would be surprised what various women respond to, a popular account is very similar effect to shiny material things that suggest currency/external validation/attention.
I would say that when messages get read at all, things go well for me. Instagram DMs are basically broken for hot or in-demand people (I know from how my own meme accounts works) so if I just tried to send DMs to every profile I saw from a dating app, most would go unread and likely never seen. Some targeting works.
(outside of dating apps and social media, I do many other things to meet women different ways, I’m not really preoccupied with the aforementioned methods but they are also there and romance has happened the way I described)
I would say that I too spend more energy than I would prefer in reaching these intimate outcomes with new women.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#203Those brothers are lucky this stalker was so meek. Things could have easily ended horribly.
Could have also ended horribly for the stalker too if the brothers weren't so meek either. Three adults, a couple of them working in construction? Anywhere else, we wouldn't be reading this story. It'd just be a note in the local paper about a random assault one night. If that.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#204Firstly there’s zero chance this was the guy’s first rodeo. Second, without a custodial sentence it wont be his last. When these stories end in tragedy there’s always the part of the story that goes something like “…X had previously been reported on no fewer than Y occasions for similar behaviour.”
> The breakdown between the modus operandi of the rapists also tells us a lot about how wrong the script is. Of all 120 admitted rapists, only about 30% reported using force or threats, while the remainder raped intoxicated victims. This proportion was roughly the same between the 44 rapists who reported one assault and the 76 who reported multiple assaults.
> If we could eliminate the men who rape again and again and again, a quarter of the violence against women and children would disappear.
> The vast majority of the offenses are being committed by a relatively small group of men, somewhere between 4% and 8% of the population, who do it again … and again … and again. That just doesn’t square with the notion of innocent mistake. Further, since the repeaters are also responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of the intimate partner violence, child beating and child sexual abuse, the notion that these predators are somehow confused good guys does not square with the data. Most of the raping is done by guys who like to rape, and to abuse, assault and violate. If we could get the one-in-twelve or one-in-25 repeat rapists out of the population (that is a lot of men — perhaps six or twelve million men in the U.S. alone) or find a way to stop them from hurting others, most sexual assault, and a lot of intimate partner violence and child abuse, would go away. Really. [0]
And:
> The result is a criminal justice system that shows an unexamined bias toward accused sexual predators—particularly those from the dominant race and class—by protecting them in advance from punishments that (in practice) very rarely materialize. And this is a hypercorrection that occurs again and again even though false claims remain statistically minuscule, and even though less than 1 percent of rapes result in a conviction. [1]
0 - https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-pr...
1 - https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/cockblockin...
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought this too. But you can feel incredibly powerless if all you do is “let the police handle it.” Even in this instance, nothing would have come of it had they not traced the guy. Prosecution of crime happens after a crime is committed. Cops can’t do much if you’re worried someone will harm you or a loved one. Even if stalking is illegal, cops won’t / can’t feasibly spend the resources investigating and punishin…
> nothing would have come of it had they not traced the guy Notify the cops. Track the guy down. Go to the station and request someone come out with you. This takes cops off the desk, which they’re rarely against unless you’re a nutter.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#206Truly, what compels a person to do such a thing? I too have struggled heavily with depression in the past, but I've never once felt the urge to repeatedly vandalize anyone's property. Like, I just don't understand what's to gain.
If you're curious, I recommend the book, "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men". It busts a lot of myths and gives a good explanation of what abusers get out of their behavior. One important myth is, "He can't control himself". E.g., he's not good at managing anger, so he needs classes. But it turns out a lot of abusive people are perfectly good at managing their anger except when the ta…
> The most common rant goes something like this: “The way Lundy describes abuse in Why Does He Do That?, any man can be labeled an abuser. He takes normal reactions to frustration and anger and throws them in with violence and threats, as if they’re all the same. If men say anything other than ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ to women, he paints them as evil. Because of ideas like Lundy’s, women in droves are labeling their partners ‘abusers’ and dumping the relationship, instead of responsibly working out issues and honoring the vows they made. And because of this children are growing up in broken homes.” (Etc., etc.)
> This tirade is super revealing, primarily for one reason: the dozens of examples of male behavior that I give in Why Does He Do That? are all severe. They illustrate men being over-the-top complete assholes. There is nothing subtle about the stories I use. I’m not discussing little nuances that, say, someone might take the wrong way; that would be a different book altogether. Mine was about severe control, degradation, destroying the woman’s relationships, making her feel like everything is her fault, and on and on and on.
> So what does it mean when a man reads those stories and considers them to be normal behaviors, ones that I’m unfairly labeling abusive? It means he considers those behaviors normal. It means he believes a woman has the responsibility to stick around for more of that kind of treatment, that she owes it to him. And it means he thinks he has the right to behave that way.
> In other words, abusiveness is driven almost entirely by a man’s belief that controlling and punishing a woman is justifiable, and that his behavior is normal and can be excused.
> And he proves it by his reactions to the stories in my books. I’m not calling him abusive because he disagrees with me; I’m doing so because of the values he reveals when he complains that my (very serious) examples are too mild to be considered abuse. [0]
0 - https://lundybancroft.com/mens-angry-messages-to-me/
1 - https://lundybancroft.com/mens-angry-messages-to-me-part-2/
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion, fraud prevention is, of all reasons to retain data, the least important. This example of dating app behaviour is easily detected with simple heuristics, and leads to far more important information than fraud could ever be.
in this case I really meant that the act of deleting and reinstalling the app is the fraudulent act, although it is not what most people would consider fraud (i.e. financial fraud) it would normally fall under "trust and safety" I guess.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering modern laws governing construction sites do not allow workers to carry anything over 20lb and that also in strict limited time, I would rather say an average gym member exercising 3 times a week would be a tougher mate. Not to mention criminals and crazy people do carry guns. The whole thing might as well ended with "three 6 feet-tall construction workers with black belts in jujitsu ended up dead shot by…
> stalker with semi-automatic gun In Scotland? (Knives, OK that's more likely; we're no longer the stabbing capital of the world but it's still a problem. But not guns. Even airguns are now restricted.)
Yes I am sure criminals care about guns and airguns being restricted. Definitely will look into possibility of moving to Scotland, considering your criminals are law-abiding citizens.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
> stalker with semi-automatic gun In Scotland? (Knives, OK that's more likely; we're no longer the stabbing capital of the world but it's still a problem. But not guns. Even airguns are now restricted.)
> Even airguns are now restricted. Yes I am sure criminals care about guns and airguns being restricted. Definitely will look into possibility of moving to Scotland, considering your criminals are law-abiding citizens.
Re: How we turned the tables to catch my sister’s Bumble stalker
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. Three sisters would not have gone this route and the police would likely have done nothing until after the stalking had escalated further. Also, 1 brother might not have attempted this either, especially considering the guy was a large creep and smart enough to wear a mask. Nor would a woman allow her sisters to go vigilante for her. These guys were quite restrained. I know families with 3 or more brothers an…
Please don't take the following as a flamebait, or gaslighting, or whatever, I mean it in the best and most polite way possible. Your comment is still mildly sexist in my view. You say that brothers would do this, you say that sisters would not do this (the woman would not allow them to do this). I think that position is unfair. Surely there are many men who wouldn't do it or who wouldn't be capable of doing it. Also…
In most cases, sisters going a different route would be the smarter play. And even in this case, it could have gone really wrong if the creep had a weapon and was aggressive or killed someone after speeding off. But that didn't happen and the stalking didn't escalate. So sometimes... courage and strength mixed with some recklessness is the best resolution. And I don't think this guy should be dragged across the coals for saying his sister was lucky to have three brothers. This IS a 3 brother type of solution to a problem.
On the aggregate, you know I'm right. Not saying there can't be a pack of three sisters that would respond similarly, but it would be a rare exception. Do I need to update my statement to say "499 of 500 sister pairs would not have gone this route" and "Nor would 499 in 500 women allow their sisters to go vigilante for her".
Do we really need to preface every statement that has a rare exception? If so, I'm not sure we can talk about much. We couldn't even say that humans have 5 fingers on each hand because not everyone does.
There are real differences between the sexes. I don't get all sensitive about that fact.
Or get all sensitive when someone who gets a positive resolution and risked their safety for their sister doesn't write in a professionally sensitive, west coast manner. The guy expressed his story in a rather tame macho manner and people are getting upset after his victory protecting his sister lol.