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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#201

Post by Apocryphon »

HEmanZ wrote: post #182
fasthands9 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm a bit torn on this. Even if we had an extremely fair and equitable society with growth I imagine there'd still be plenty of people who feel rejected or lonesome at times. Or just like the feeling that these drugs give them above normal drugs. I drink alcohol a couple times a week and do edibles once a month. I'm sure some would argue I'm not fulfilled but I think the easier explanation is that a lot of ti…

I have known quite a few friends from earlier in my life who became serious addicts and ruined their lives or ended their lives by it. I would not describe a single one as having started using because they were mad at society, sad, or lonesome. It was always some strange kind of strange, arrogant fetishization of drug-life and crime-life. There is an almost "drug life is THE life, and everyone else is lame" attitude…

Were they bored, did they not have exciting career or family prospects, was it ennui? Low-grade emotions can lead to addictive behaviors, not only high intensity trauma. The decision to subscribe to a malignant anti-authority lifestyle still shows that something is wrong, if it becomes so attractive an alternative to forsake one's life for.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#202

Post by fragmede »

fckgnad wrote: post #83

Nothing wrong with this being on the front page. Just posting this here as a question. Is the reason why this is on the front page because a good number of software engineers addicted? Maybe you don't have the numbers but you yourself who's reading this may be personally interested in a vaccine?

Not necessarily addicts, but where fentanyl is poisoning the illegal street market, even those once a month cocaine or illegal ketamine or mdma users are at risk, not just oxycontin addicts. Even purchasers of Adderall have to be careful these days. And vaccines are just cool technology. Why wouldn't I take this thing that makes me immune to as certain type of poisoning. It may not be for iocaine power but I'll take that vaccine as soon as it comes out!

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#203

Post by EricDeb »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

There's absolutely some truth to that though. People do not fall into addiction at the same rate in all societies.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#204

Post by asveikau »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other.

They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby.

They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the reason they started is kind of irrelevant, and it's very difficult to quit, through no fault of their own.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#205

Post by plusminusplus »

71a54xd wrote: post #183

As someone who's not a drug addict or around people who use substances that might be tainted with it, I don't want this. If I'm in a car accident or a serious condition where I need immensely powerful pain-killers I sure as you know what want Fentanyl to work.

> you know what want Fentanyl to work [sic]

Your concerns are addressed in the article you're commenting on

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#206

Post by bostonsre »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #179
buzzert wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better way to frame the drug legalization issue is, "should pharmaceutical companies be allowed to profit from incredibly addictive drugs?" Does that framing change your mind at all? Sure, small-time drug dealers are currently allowed to profit from it. Once they get big enough though, they're usually stopped by the DEA. The idea of giving this enormous profit incentive to multi-million dollar corporations with hug…

This is an inaccurate understanding of the drug economy. The drug cartels that supply the street dealers are multi billion dollar businesses rivaling the size of the big pharma corporations. And the DEA absolutely is not "usually stopping" them. They disrupt low and mid level arms of their operations with some regularity, but it does little to stem the rivers of money flowing towards the groups controlling the illici…

Didn't we kind of already try this out some with opiates? Didn't big pharma already push opiates and cause millions of people to become addicted and cause an untold number of deaths and didn't that contribute to the current situation that we are in now with opiate addiction?

I don't see how legalizing it completely where anyone who wants it without a prescription could possibly turn into anything but an absolute mess. How many millions of people will say "O, the government legalized it and I can buy it in a store, it must not be so bad, I might as well try it out", become addicted and have their lives ruined? People can't rationalize their way out of addiction of this stuff easily.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#207

Post by azalemeth »

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

My fentanyl experiences have entirely been as part of surgery: it's part of the balanced triad of anaesthesia and I "recently" injured myself quite badly, resulting in three operations. After one of these, I spent about 36 hours on a fentanyl infusion and more than a month on oral morphine of various doses with my leg in an orthopaedic brace while I was bed-bound. I should point out that the alternative was a lot of screaming: visceral pain of the variety I cannot describe – I had a panicked, "help me" expression on my face and just felt utterly, utterly desperate. I was in a lot of pain and medically the drugs were appropriate, given the injuries I sustained.

I totally get why some people become addicted to drugs. Diazepam made me both in less pain and care less that I was in it. The opiates produced this warm, fuzzy haze of vivid dreams and imaginations and made a difficult time bearable. Fentanyl made me feel less than human but not able to suffer, and it was a necessity at the time.

Of all of them though, diazepam was the most dangerous. It just felt – well, nice. I didn't care that things were bad. I needed it medically to stop neurogenic muscle spasms and it made me both able to sleep well and feel OK about life in a way that is really hard to put into words. I have some in a bag, prescribed for me, in case I need it. Part of me – a small part of me, but a part nonetheless – wants to use it, a lot, when I don't need it. There's a little voice that just says "this makes you feel like you've been tucked up into bed nicely". I really can't explain it, but I know that voice is a temptation and a gateway to something that I don't want to have – but at the same time, I know that that drug both saves me from agony and helps me medically if I need it. I'm really not sure how I feel about that. I haven't had any in months, but the psychological aspect remains.

I can only imagine what "real" drug addicts go through. It must be incredibly hard, and individual's range of experiences will be very broad indeed.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#208

Post by isaacg »

wdhilliard wrote: post #75

Does this prevent death or just the perceived effects of the drug? This could be very dangerous for users who relapse. There is a known pattern of users who get off opioids then relapse and die because their bodies can no longer tolerate the doses that they were used to taking before they quit. This could have a similar effect where users take the drug, don't feel it, and then increase their dose to lethal levels hop…

The abstract of the underlying research paper: https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4923/14/11/2290/htm contains the quote "Vaccination prevented decreases on physiological measures (oxygen saturation, heart rate) and reduction in overall activity following FEN administration in male rats." These physiological measures are the precursors to overdose, which occurs when low oxygen saturation becomes hypoxia and becomes fatal.

To summarize, yes, this vaccine prevents overdose, as well as the other drug effects.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#209

Post by hammock »

AngriestLettuce wrote: post #194
hammock wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>produce it pharmaceutically They are... in Mexico... with expert training from China...

With no consequences for chemically altering their products... or getting people killed...

Doesn't sound too different from Big Pharma in the US, at least in certain drug categories...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#210

Post by schwartzworld »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

Many people get addicted to drugs after being prescribed them following surgery or injury. I know someone this happened to exactly. They gave him a bunch of opiates for pain management and he took them as directed and wound up an addict. I think a lot fewer people "choose" to get addicted to medicine in this way than either you or the GP are implying.
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