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Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

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201–210 of 224 posts

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual root of the problem is the employee's own thinking. They don't have the self respect to exit a bad situation. They are paralyzed by low self esteem, fear of the unknown, and seem to be content being in a bad situation. The reasons are readily unclear to the person experiencing this and so they continue to go through this. A therapist will simply ask pointed questions like "how do you feel about [topic]?" A…

I would just like to die now. I wish I’d left. It can get bad if you stay. Take everything.

If you are overwhelmed, seek help.

We are a highly specialized society with lots of occupations that can help you navigate different kinds of problems. For this kind of problem in particular, try talking to a therapist.

If you are overwhelmed by a plumbing problem, you call a plumber. If your house is burning down, you call the fire department. If your pet has a problem, you go see a veterinarian. This is the same thing. Nobody expects you to be an expert in getting out of every type of problem that exists. Just don't think too hard about it or care too much about what others might think.

Be kind to yourself.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#202
post #197

This is 100% why we need a strong social safety net and/or UBI in the USA. Imagine if you could just quit a job like this, take a few months off, and start looking for a new job, without worrying about becoming bankrupt or homeless? The economy would thrive as individuals were free to move about the labor market, take time off to re-skill periodically, etc. I was in a bad situation in a job, completely burned out. It…

The issue with UBI is that some people start doing "jobs" that aren't productive, like Factorio.

So what? People play Factorio all day today in absence of UBI. You don't think those people could, given a newfound economic freedom, be better positioned to pursue real-life 'productive' forms of Factorio labor that they're passionate about like robotics, logistics...?

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#203

I had a job at Apple for two years, which paid very well and had very good stock grants, but I absolutely hated. I hated most (not all) of my managers, I didn't really enjoy the work, and my team in particular would routinely have meetings until 9pm, multiple times a week. I would sign off from my computer, and lie down on my bed nearly catatonic because I was so unhappy, to a point where my wife was getting a bit wo…

99% of a persons opinion about a company is a function of who their boss is.

I’ve seen situations where people have been at a company 20+ years, loved their work throughout all of those year, felt appreciated and more. Then one day they get a new boss and hated their job, hated the company and quit.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just like to die now. I wish I’d left. It can get bad if you stay. Take everything.

If you are overwhelmed, seek help. We are a highly specialized society with lots of occupations that can help you navigate different kinds of problems. For this kind of problem in particular, try talking to a therapist. If you are overwhelmed by a plumbing problem, you call a plumber. If your house is burning down, you call the fire department. If your pet has a problem, you go see a veterinarian. This is the same th…

Haha

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#205

Thank you for sharing. I can relate. This is my first “real” full time job, and I’ve now been there 10 years with little to show for it, and not for lack of trying. Software engineer for a small company, report directly to the owners. Repeatedly, I pour my heart and soul into a project that I believe in, only for ownership to trash the project for superficial reasons. I’ll do small things and get overly patronizing p…

> Repeatedly, I pour my heart and soul into a project that I believe in, only for ownership to trash the project for superficial reasons. This has happened to me over and over and I've seen it happen to others. It's not always obvious but sometimes business changes. Markets change, customer demands change, regulations change, competitors change. Strategies that made sense suddenly don't anymore. All the work that has…

> Maybe the owners are assholes, but they are doing something right.

Sometimes they are assholes and they are doing it wrong but it can work for a long time because there is still a market and no one want or can compete.

Say you own the only restaurant on top of a hill. There can only be one, as the space is limited, so it's only you. There will always be some customers are people enjoy the top of the hill view despite your shitty food. The owner of such an establishment can exist for longer than you can remain sane.

It's why lots of shitty businesses and bosses exist. These guys are immune, but a nice boss/business can die if the market changes.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#206
I worked at one of the bigger companies (not a FAANG, but right near there) for almost 19 years before leaving last year. When I joined, it was as amazing a company and culture as I’d imagined, having used their products for years and being a big fan. It was very engineering-driven, with brilliant people being given a loose rein to explore and invent. Cool inventions would find their way into one of the products. Incredible ones would become new products themselves.

Several years later, after some meaty mergers and exec shake-ups, it changed into a product-driven culture. It was less about boldly exploring and more about shoring up the product line and making sure it was as all-around essential as could be.

Then, the MBAs swarmed in. Average tenure went from double digits to mid-singles. Another round of exec shakeups and the new order was clearly marketing: protect the franchise at all costs. VPs who had shone a little early on were now erratic and damaging - to products and morale - with little attention from corporate. It was not about creating amazing things. It became about circling the wagons and squeezing every fraction of a penny everywhere possible.

Working on a more niche line of products, it was an almost Brazil-like routine of pointless effort being praised, ignored, then quickly forgotten. When the trends presented became apparent, then it became a blame game of who was at fault, rolling downhill, of course.

It wasn’t until I was actually on my way out I could recognize how toxic it all was. Like a cancer that grows so slowly, you don’t really notice that small bump has become a bowling ball sized tumor on your neck.

Not sure what advice I have other than to trust your gut, and put aside any loyalty or connections you have to the things you helped create because they’re not yours and will be handed over to the next person without any fanfare. You are not the company you work for. Disconnect the feelings of identity and cut the umbilical as soon as you feel it attaching itself.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#207

When I joined Stripe in 2020, I was over the moon and felt like this is my dream job when I signed. It was border line toxic environment. So many new folks were getting hired and being shoe horned into random things. My manager was new and a bit biased. Kinda racist who assumed white = smart, not so white = not so smart. Both my grandfathers had passed from Covid after a few months. I was really depressed. I felt sui…

Thanks for talking about your experiences dealing with it. When I read that, I am glad I was not alone in experiencing day to day biases. I guess the writing was on the wall but I didn't see it when I moved to Europe. Over years, my colleagues have said some mean bigoted things and hr is fine as long as it was said in a sarcastic tone on freedom of speech.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#208
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"turns out I’m horrible at suicide!" Ouch, I am not sure if you meant it like this, but please don't take it as more proof of how you failed. You did not. Your remaining desire to live was just stronger, otherwise you surely would be dead. So please live this life, because you want to, not because you have to. All the best! Edit: And screw those performance based love idiots, they didn't know better and you had no al…

I do believe it was meant to be taken as a joke.

Yes, but likely a dark joke with too much truth.

"but I’m terrible, so there’s no way out. "

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#209
well, I can somewhat relate to this. Made an account just to post it.

A few years ago I started working at this startup. Initially as a contractor, but I came up full time pretty quick. They were well funded, had a great team, and I had no complaints.

About a year in I had the opportunity to scale a project I had started. At the same time we brought on this new guy. He's held very senior positions at companies that are well known in our industry. He had a growth strategy that impressed everyone.

I've never seen a company pivot as fast as we did then. We raised a lot of money. It was a super exciting time.

I really enjoyed working with this new dude. He was often advocating for me, and I often had the opportunity to get involved with his projects and learn from him. Arguably the first time in my career I really considered anyone to be a mentor.

Not that I had a bad relationship with my co-workers. The CTO had also gone out of his way to help me out on a few occasions. But this new guy just went well out of his way to "have my back".

His project was spun out into the "b2b" side of our company. Technically I was a part of that initiative as well, but his was just so much larger. If needed, I was asked to lend a hand while we got on our feet. I saw it as an opportunity.

One of the first things I was asked to do was to help manage the team he had just hired. It was supposed to be just a daily check in kind of thing. I would follow up on tasks and report back to management. They were supposed to be trained specifically in the task they were hired for, even having experience working on an identical project. They did not. Somebody needed to train them.

This dude had hired these contractors because he had a relationship with that company. He had worked there for almost a decade. So he would talk to them about finding more experienced talent, and in the meantime I'd learn how to do the job and train the people we had.

it was a ton of extra work, but this was for a client who's monthly fees would match my target for the entire year. So realistically, how could I justify working on my project? It made sense to put it on the back-burner.

Next problem. Our client didn't actually want to start with the "full" job we had contracted for. It was quite literally 0.01% of the order volume we were expecting. They wanted to make sure we could deliver before giving us all their business, the deal was already worked out. No big deal, if it was easy to make money everyone would do it.

Also, we couldn't actually deliver what we had promised. I was very concerned about it. The bossman was not. He said he had been doing it a long time, he thought I was doing a great job, and it was hard to really benchmark anything at the scale we were operating within. The expectations were to figure out our strategy, so I should just keep at it.

I figured that, surely, he'd be a little more concerned if this was unexpected. Whenever I identified potential solves to issues we were having, he was more concerned that I was getting off track and that I hadn't given his plan a fair shake. So I kept at it. After all, i'd only been working in this specific part of the business for a few months. Surely somebody with as so much experience would have a understanding it would take to be successful.

things kept getting worse. I had just started to get our team to a point where they could work independently, and then they were all swapped for different staff. I found out that they were not actually full time, and just being assigned based on what they perceived our workload to be. I had to jump through a ton of hoops to figure this out. I started to think that maybe this dude was not as smart as he said he was.

he probably spent so much time in executive roles that he did not realize how much work went into this. I am new to this, so I probably just don't know how to execute.

I had several very real feeling conversations with this dude where I was like "look, this shit aint working. we need to try a different approach". and he was open to it. I always felt like we made progress, though he was skeptical. Yet I always felt like I was getting stonewalled. Going through very specific benchmarks would be passed off as 'not seeing the bigger picture' or getting hung up on some stupid detail.

At one of these meetings I had come prepared. He had been promoting this "new strategy" that was extremely similar to the old one. I had irrefutable data that showed that we had tested everything in his proposal. I had an alternate plan to refocus on the few areas we had seen performance. I figured that if we tried to scale them aggressively, we might not miss our targets by a huge margin.

Not perfect by any means, but it was way better than the trajectory we were on. He had a lot of input, but seemed be willing to shift gears.

he was already covering most of my meetings for me so I could stay heads down. we reduced this again to a 1/2 hour every other day and I worked on building out a compromised strategy we had agreed on. It was supposed to be timed so that we he presented our new targets, we could show progress on the solution.

When it came time to present, I joined a company wide meeting. During this meeting he announced the launch of his own V2, which he had been working on with a few other people in the company. It was the exact same thing I had questioned before, only now the value proposition had changed something so abstract that it could not be measured. I was left on mute the whole meeting.

It was at this point that I realized that all the work I had done was just a distraction. He fed me bullshit every meeting and reported to the rest of the company that everything was going peachy. After speaking to the CEO, I learned that they were also completely in the dark about the actual situation. they thought we had a decent chunk of money coming in, and that everything was fairly successful.

It was pretty obvious at this point that this guy was not dumb, he didn't make a mistake. He was clearly just trying to save face. All of the red flags I had overlooked were suddenly very obvious. To date I am still caught off guard by how much stuff I was willing to overlook. It just felt insane to even consider someone I really enjoyed working with would be operating with so much hidden motive.

I had been on the same calls with my coworkers, and we all had completely different interpretations of the facts. This manager had habits like cutting people off, dominating a conversation, booking meetings during hours where half of us couldn't make it. And it never seemed all that unusual.

The whole thing left a really bad taste in my mouth. I couldn't stop going over all these little things that should have tipped me off that something was up. Obviously I must be completely incompetent to dump as much energy as I did into something that was very clearly flawed.

I thought, "fuck the stock options, i'm just going to walk". I quit via text.

the story should have ended there, but I had a solid conversation with the previous CEO who asked that I stay and try to see if there was anything that could be done with what we had built. I actually got something running and did $40k in revenue. Then was promptly let go. I'm still fighting with them over $20k in salary, and the other guy who started this whole project is now the CEO.

A few weeks later I thought to myself "ok, I may be a fucking idiot. but i'm also a professional computer toucher. I can get paid for performing simple tasks. At least I don't have to cover up my complete lack of any tangible skills with an elaborate house of cards. that's nice."

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#210
> proactively sidelined me so much it left me nothing to do on a daily basis.

A bit of a tangent, but there is always learning to do. Reading documentation on the tools in use.

They cannot take your brain away (without breaking the law). A minimally good day consists of walking out of the building smarter.

Yesterday I learned that the WindowKey+RightArrow will make the application with focus occupy the right half of the screen.

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