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The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

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Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, every situation has its shortcomings, possibly even big sucking chest wounds which don't help. But my point was that if multiple systems, some of which seem different (US vs EU), all with different apparent wounds, appear to fail in the same way at the same time, maybe there's something that's common among them which is the actual cause. Perhaps it's just a coincidence. But which is more likely?

I would argue they're not failing in the same way though. The US system is "failing" in the sense that health services are not available/affordable to all. The NHS has issues with funding and staffing. France has issues with supply chains. Any system will have flaws, but just because no system is perfect it does not mean that all are imperfect in the same way.

I don't get why the underlying problem is not even being discussed here at all. Any attempt to fix the system will have to increase investment in both training and drug research.

This will be a large investment (if doubling the training budget produced double the graduates that would not be enough), and will NOT bear fruit until those people actually graduate, which is 6 years minimum, and mostly 10 years away. So for 10 years, it means paying through taxes while getting minimum to no improvements in return. Furthermore, such a large increase is not possible at short notice, even if the money is available, so it will take more than 10 years time.

For research one might take profit margins of large pharma as an indicator: a fully nationalized, but equally capable, pharma research system would cost some 15% less, assuming nationalizing introduces zero inefficiencies. BUT that money would have to come from taxpayers directly through the government budget.

And nobody is looking for 15% reduction in drugs costs. That just won't move the needle enough. So in reality the government would have to increase the drug research budget to make drugs cheap.

Failing to do this will mean medicine becomes less accessible to people, regardless of whether we switch to a single payer system or not.

So let's get real here: we will fail to do this, and it will get worse.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A high deductible plan can save you money on the front end, but if you start using that plan you should prepare for rain - a deluge of bills from providers who have no idea what the insurance owes and what you owe. And God-forbid you use a narrow network plan like an EPO because it's hard to figure out ahead of time what services are covered by the network and what's not. I went to see a doc who was in-network and on…

>a deluge of bills from providers who have no idea what the insurance owes and what you owe. But if the provider can't communicate with the insurance in order to figure that out, why would a different deductible/coinsurance change that? I was actually told that I met my deductible in 2022, and then I got another big bill in the mail. So that made me think deductibles are a scam and I should just pick the plan with th…

The deductible is one of two thresholds that are typical on insurance plans. The second, higher threshold is the out of pocket maximum.

So some aspect of the coverage might be a 20% coinsurance, where you pay the full cost up to the deductible and then pay 20% of the cost after that until you have reached the out of pocket maximum.

Most of the fees you pay count against both of them, so like if you pay $35 to visit your primary care doctor, you are $35 closer to meeting your deductible, and then also $35 closer to reaching your out of pocket maximum. Lots of frequently used services are covered as a fee based co-pay rather than as coinsurance.

If you have a major expense for something that is covered as 20% coinsurance, the amount up to the deductible would be 100% out of your pocket, and then the coverage would kick in and pay for 80% of the rest (until your 20% exceeds the out of pocket maximum).

I kind of wonder if disallowing insurance companies to negotiate deals with providers would actually end up improving things a lot (because it would create pressure to normalize prices vs fucking around to save a little bit).

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#204
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

serious question - you think overweight people do not know they are overweight? And they don’t know it’s bad for them? They are probably overweight because they physically have trouble losing the weight (disability, hormonal issues, etc), or they have no self-control, or they are poor and don’t have the means or time to focus on their health. if you are already fat and prediabetic, you have a lifestyle problem, not a…

My point is that the medical industry prioritizes treatment of expedient consequences over treatment of root causes, and then they bitch that they're so overworked and overwhelmed. If they were truly interested in un-clogging their hospitals and clearing their dockets, they'd be actively engaged in treating root causes. Sure, maybe alongside the pharmaceutical interventions, but the focus ought to be on the cause. To…

The medical industry prioritizes treatment of current problems instead of prevention because that's how incentives are set up in the system. Most treatments are delivered under under a fee-for-service model. Insurers and government generally won't pay to prevent a patient who isn't obese yet from becoming obese.

Any major changes will have to come at the state and federal government level. The medical industry can't do much to change that on it's own.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#206
The fact that OP feels powerless to practice without the enormous infrastructure of a hospital is clearly an issue. We need medical care regulatory reform which allows doctors to clean up this market.

Until then I just seek treatment outside the US, yay remote work!

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#207
post #79

Wrote Hacking Healthcare for O'Reilly, created ClearHealth/HealthCould open source EMR, built and operated ~90 acute care management services organizations (MSO) (the "things" that operate the non-medical aspects of many acute care systems). Healthcare is highly dysfuctional but I want to dampen the notion a little bit that it is in some unique and new kind of collapse today. Everything you are stating is nearly verb…

It is unique from my perspective. I have 17 years with major metro fire/ems department. We have crested into the hundreds of thousands 911 call volumes. People have literally stopped thinking and just call 911 for every minor inconvenience.

A massive number of calls are simply untreated low-grade fevers where the patient was unaware of the fever. I am OBLIGATED and MANDATED to send them to the ED if they request transport. Furthermore, I am LEGALLY bound to offer transport to the ED. I have ZERO authority to tell them to take a fever reducer and call back if that doesn't fix their medical concern.

We are taught to use differential diagnosis in paramedicine. However, we are not allowed to diagnose per medical guidelines from the medical director. Working with this dichotomy has made the entire pre-hospital care system complete bullshit. Based on what I see in the ER, the entire system is on the precipice of complete failure. This collapse is unique and new due to the absurd volume of patients and bullshit policy that has not changed.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#208
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an open debate in the medical community. I’m told there have been pilot programs for “end of life counseling” where folks at a certain age are given advice about quality of life expectations once this situation is reached. They often responded by talking to their families and creating plans for ending care before things are bad, solving the weird pressures that families feel in that situation. I’ve not yet go…

End of life counseling became a political third rail when it was rebranded as "death panels" by Sarah Palin in order to delegitimate the ACA. Since then, it has been avoided as a topic of public discourse by the media. Discourse around death in general makes people queasy. We tend to avoid the cognitive dissonance between the idea that supplying less end of life care would dramatically reduce medical expenses and the…

> supplying less end of life care would dramatically reduce medical expenses

This is a myth.

  [Those] with a high chance of dying accounted for only 5 percent of total Medicare spending, and among them about half survived in any case

  total spending on end-of-life care is only 9 percent of the total cost of health care.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#209
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I could see a single payer system having the same problems. You can look at the UK right now. The root problem has nothing to do with health insurance companies or who is paying. The problem is drastic increases in net benefit recipients relative to net payers/labor providers into the system. I.e. declining proportions of healthy, working people willing to provide labor at a sufficiently low price, such that in orde…

This seems like a problem that would right itself if the conservatives allowed for more immigration

It's an unfair way to fix the problem.

Let poorer countries pay to train nurses and doctors, and then wealthier countries take the best because they can pay more for them due to economic dominance.

We do it in New Zealand by importing a lot of doctors (Chinese and Indian seem common), and nurses . The reason we need to import doctors is because we export a lot of doctors and nurses to wealthier countries such as the USA.

In New Zealand, we get people from poorer countries because we can pay more, and we also get people from first world countries because people want to move here for the lifestyle or for their children.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#210
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have had both employer provided Kaiser and Aetna. Aetna was awful while Kaiser was great. Aetna made us jump through all kinds of hoops to get a simple prescription (not pain meds) while it was only a quick phone call with Kaiser. In fact, while in great pain we had to wait for over 8 hours with Aetna to even talk with someone before we gave up and went to GoodRx and got the help we needed nearly instantly. I don't r…

Aetna is known to be low quality, especially after CVS bought them. CVS has a ton of debt and I do not see CVS management to have a culture of investing in employees. They are known for their retail business, where it is typical to ride employees to the limit until they burnout. I like sticking to BCBS insurers, such as Elevance, Regence, Independence, Horizon, etc.

Except BCBS Premera here in Texas. They're having a bitch fight with Ascension/Seton healthcare, which includes Dell Children's Center and the majority of the good hospitals and ERs in the area, as well as many doctors practices. But Open Season ended in November, so now people can't switch insurance companies so that they can actually go to their healthcare provider of choice.

And BCBS desperately wants to force you to use only their approved pharmacies, but as of late last year there is a new law here in Texas that makes that illegal. So, what BCBS does is make their preferred pharmacy "optional", but what is not optional is that you can't get any drugs from any other pharmacy until you call up their preferred pharmacy on the phone and speak to a human being to get them to opt you out of the "optional" preferred pharmacy. And imagine how hard that process is these days.

Fuck BCBS.

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