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Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

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201–210 of 313 posts

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#201
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's not a libertarian, he's a states rights guy because he wants the power to do things like ban abortion in Texas. This is not inconsistent with libertarian thought. Protecting life from violence is a primary responsibility of government. If you believe that the fetus qualifies as a life at any point between conception and birth, you would be against abortion. Simple as that. If you want to fault him for believin…

The fetus is trespassing on the women's body, and it would be self-defense to remove the invader.

You invite your friend to your home for a party. Your guest walked to your home. A blizzard starts outside. Your friend does something that pisses you off. You kick him out of your home, into the blizzard. He dies as a result.

Were you just asserting your property rights or did you commit murder?

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But none of that really matters. I would bet that you are neither a woman, black, jewish, poor, or gay. So the fact, for example, that ron paul is a huge racist is something that you can discount at no cost to you. edit : wow, i see the ron paul brigade is out in force, as usual. thank you all! never been so proud of being downvoted.

Ron Paul is not a racist, and in fact sees racism as the lowest form of collectivism.

I'd like to make a note on "collectivism".

If there isn't a single person in the western political discourse who proudly adheres to a given characterization, it's a strawman.

That's all. Meanwhile, on Ron Paul / race, that newsletter is a bit of a problem. Maybe you're too young to remember the conflation between states' rights and segregation.

I'm really interested to see what happens if he wins Iowa and comes in 2nd in New Hampshire. I do think it would be good for the Republican party.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ron Paul has some great ideas, he was against iraq war, iran invasion and more. But he hates gay rights and is very strong on Religion. He want laws against burning the flag, against abortion, and more. He has extreme views, that you either hate or love.

What irks me is that this is how a lot of people I've met approach presidential candidates. They gloss over important things like how Ron Paul is planning to implement $1 trillion in budget cuts, a reduction in the cabinet, etc and go straight for his personal beliefs which he doesn't allow to dictate his political career. He even voted against the ban on gay marriages.

Which ban? All I can find is his support of DOMA, and the Marriage Protection Act, which would have prevented Federal judges from ruling on the constitutionality of DOMA.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he wants to limit the govt to do nothing but what is legally provisioned in the constitution That's essentially correct, but a bit of an oversimplification. A more accurate representation would be "he wants to limit the federal govt to do nothing but what is legally provisioned in the constitution". There are a number of things that he'd like to see the government do, but at a state or local level. For example, he's…

A few points to mention.. there is most definitely a federal law against murder: US Code Title 18 Section 1111. I'm also concerned with your statements regarding abortion et al. These are serious issues that significantly impact people's lives. We shouldn't have a "playground" or a labyrinth of "mini laboratories" for such issues. What's to stop a state, say Alabama for hypothetical purposes, from testing out slavery…

there is most definitely a federal law against murder: US Code Title 18 Section 1111

Any lawyers here to clarify? I looked this up [1], and find a couple of interesting things. First, it specifies a death penalty for Murder 1st Degree -- but we all know that there are plenty of states (most?) in which you cannot be killed for this. So there's a contradiction. Also, see [2]

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as precluding the application of State or local laws to the conduct proscribed by this chapter, nor shall anything in this chapter be construed as creating any substantive or procedural right enforceable by law by any party in any proceeding.

So my best guess is that this stuff is applicable to DC, national parks, etc., but not to the states.

What's to stop a state, say Alabama for hypothetical purposes, from testing out slavery again?

Ummm... maybe the 13th Amendment? Honestly, I think you're being intentionally obtuse here.

Who picks the best results? Certainly not the federal government under a Paul administration.

The people of each state, or their duly appointed representatives, of course.

Many supporters counter by stating that people can just move to another state... but unfortunately for the poor moving is almost impossible.

This creates a competitive situation between states. In the end, the most prosperous states will be those that can find the best equilibrium between positive and negative rights for the residents. Crank up the taxes too high, and you'll get mass exodus as with California today. But with them too low relative to expenses, the states can't provide necessary services (or wind up in significant debt, as we see with PIIGS in the EU; this suggests that balanced-budget rules are necessary for the states, which is a problem we'd need to overcome).

It looks like you're so afraid that a small portion are going to be disadvantaged that you're insisting on a one-size-fits-all solution. But experience shows that such solutions are almost always worse in the end (e.g., NCLB), and by their very nature they hurt a much broader scope of people -- better to make your experimental mistakes at a small scope. Especially since experience also shows that legislative mistakes (again, like NCLB, but there are countless other examples) are almost never rolled back, because of political gamesmanship.

I don't think a strict adherence to the literal wording of the document will be any beneficial to solving the broad problems that exist today.

In what way is insisting on using Article V (the amendment process) in order to patch bugs inferior to ad hoc power grabs? When the changes are ad hoc, we get phenomena like GWB's power grabs around USA PATRIOT and other issues. In some cases these were decried by the other side, but a few years later, when power swung the other way, those that claimed to oppose the overreaches did nothing to right the problems, and indeed, have enjoyed exercising and even expanding those newly-minted powers themselves.

So it looks to me like the ad hoc route has tremendous dangers. The only disadvantage I can see to the use of Article V is that it requires enough political support that those advocating the changes, although they don't admit it, don't believe they can get it (or so it seems to me).

[1] http://openjurist.org/title-18/us-code/section-1111

[2] http://openjurist.org/title-18/us-code/section-1092

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#205
post #155

It's not surprising that Ron Paul would be against SOPA. That said, libertarians like Paul would have been against funding the projects that led to the Internet, and are today against funding similar government projects that might lead to future innovations. In many cases, innovations are bootstrapped by government funding or research, and then handed off to an appropriate role by the free market. Libertarians are us…

You really believe connecting two computers would not happen without government "bootstrapping"? I hope this is not a serious position.

I personally enjoy your simplistic vision of how an economy works. It's as simple as having the government water little seeds of innovation, and to simply hand it off to the "free market" to flourish and capitalize.

You see, entrepreneurs operate in a market, in which they compete to create value. A monopoly on violence is not an entrepreneurial entity.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you say he's against gay rights? He has the most progressive opinion on marriage of any candidate. Which is to say abolish marriage licenses entirely. It's only very recently (in the history of marriage) that marriage became an issue to the state anyway.

Excuse me, what? He supported both the Defense of Marriage Act as well co-sponsoring the Marriage Protection Act, "which would have barred federal judges from hearing cases pertaining to the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act." That sentence alone is so offensive to my sensibilities as a citizen as to permanently disqualify him from my vote.

His name does not appear on the vote for the Defense of Marriage Act. Please give us an example for your claim he supported it.

Apparently he didn't even show up to vote for it, so much was his "support": http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll316.xml

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't agree with Ron Paul, it's because you've spent far less time studying the real implications and economic intricacies as he has. He's right on everything.

I agree with Ron Paul on economy more than any other candidate, but he's racist, anti-semite and a homophobe, or at least pretended to be one in order to get rich, which I find highly unlikely[1][2]. In my opinion, no matter how right on economy he is, we can't have someone like that as a president. [1] http://www.mrdestructo.com/2011/12/game-over-scans-of-over-5... [2] http://twitter.com/#!/RP_Newsletter Edit: sorry…

he's racist, anti-semite and a homophobe

I don't believe that's true. But even if he were, the elegance of his philosophy is such that it renders him powerless to do anything about it.

He wants to take power away from the presidency and the rest of the federal government. He's not looking for power to oppress somebody he doesn't like (or favor the corporations he does like). He wants to make it so that it's impossible to curry favor or harm on groups according to a politician's whim.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What irks me is that this is how a lot of people I've met approach presidential candidates. They gloss over important things like how Ron Paul is planning to implement $1 trillion in budget cuts, a reduction in the cabinet, etc and go straight for his personal beliefs which he doesn't allow to dictate his political career. He even voted against the ban on gay marriages.

Which ban? All I can find is his support of DOMA, and the Marriage Protection Act, which would have prevented Federal judges from ruling on the constitutionality of DOMA.

I've seen assertions he supported the DOMA, but he didn't vote for it, so he couldn't have supported it very much. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll316.xml

Further, he supports human rights in virtually every context, including marriage.

Paul wants the government out of the marriage business. Obama wants the government in the marriage business, AND he wants to keep gay marriage banned.

Thus if support of DOMA is your criteria, then Paul is a better choice than Obama.

Of course this has nothing to do with SOPA. It's just the leftist talking points for bashing Paul whenever his name comes up so we have to respond to these insinuations.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#209
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's not even a libertarian: he's perfectly fine with States grossly abridging freedom, just not the federal government. Exactly this. He's not a libertarian, he's a states rights guy because he wants the power to do things like ban abortion in Texas. I think he has a very regressive political philosophy, that would empower local governments to discriminate against minorities, women, the disenfranchised, etc. Peopl…

It's easier to switch states than to switch countries. If you don't like the draconian laws in your state you can move to another one that shares your views.

And when I'm out of states that share my views?

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#210
post #199
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's a states rights guy because he wants the power to do things like ban abortion in Texas. No, he's a states rights guy because he's a states rights guy, and he holds to that position even when states pass laws he disagrees with. Look, the two most decentralized first-world countries that I can think of are Canada and Switzerland. These are not draconian racist hellholes; they're considered some of the freest coun…

> Look, the two most decentralized first-world countries that I can think of are Canada and Switzerland. These are not draconian racist hellholes But the South was . You're ignoring the evidence of history. Canada and Switzerland are simply much less diverse, and it's pretty naive to think that racists in Mississippi and Alabama, who never went away, wouldn't seize on the chance to reinstitute something resembling Ji…

     > it's pretty naive to think that racists in Mississippi
     > and Alabama, who never went away, wouldn't seize on the
     > chance to reinstitute something resembling Jim Crow laws.
He's the naive one? Frankly, what you're suggesting is absurd and borderline offensive. As if the enlightened North and federal legislation are all that prevents the re-institution of Jim Crow laws! Give me a break.
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