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Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

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Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#201

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

CharlesW wrote: post #7
weinzierl wrote: post #2

It's pretty popular in Germany and the name and logo is often found on outdoor clothing. I always wondered if the name is the same in English speaking countries, or if it's different because of its negative connotations. Apparently it's just a not too uncommon family name (Al Gore comes to mind) and also used as brand name in English speaking countries. People get so upset about Toot and Coq and Gimp, but Gore seems…

> People get so upset about Toot and Coq and Gimp, but Gore seems totally OK. For me (a native American English speaker) the context matters. When used in a name or as part of a longer name (e.g. Gore-TEX), it's totally okay. Actual gore can be upsetting, but the word itself is commonly used in content warnings and guides. "Gimp" is different than "Coq" or "Cox" (a popular cable provider in the U.S.) in that it's con…

The author of Coq named it that way deliberately, which is why some people are annoyed by it. It's not that big a deal when it happens naturally, but going for such a pun in an academic/professional setting isn't really something to do.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#202

Post by lvl102 »

I found Gore-TEX to be not durable enough. I sometimes have to go through several shells to find one that’s made right. And we’re talking about technical shells that cost hundreds of dollars from reputable clothing companies. And these companies often get away with it because 999/1000 of the purchases are not used in intended environments. People will never find out that their shells leak.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#203

Post by refurb »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #194
refurb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Asbestos has chelated iron in it that catalyzes free radicals that result in DNA damage. Saying "Its physical properties are incompatible with human biology." is not an actual answer. What physical properties?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_impact_of_asbestos#Bi... Fibers so small they tangle up with your chromosomes are the physical properties that can cause cancer

Please don't quote wikipedia. That's a theory from the 70's.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#204

Post by ethbr0 »

lvl102 wrote: post #202

I found Gore-TEX to be not durable enough. I sometimes have to go through several shells to find one that’s made right. And we’re talking about technical shells that cost hundreds of dollars from reputable clothing companies. And these companies often get away with it because 999/1000 of the purchases are not used in intended environments. People will never find out that their shells leak.

Gore-TEX stuff is like all adventure products -- if they only sold it to people who really used it, their market would be 10x.

So rejoice in well-funded, status-posturing, subsidizing rubes!

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#205

Post by ethbr0 »

adrian_b wrote: post #198
MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience cuts it more along the lines of what the other materials in the shoe are. My main hiking shoes are leather Meindl Islands (on my second pair now since something like a decade - the first would probably have worked if it wasn't for an unfortunate accident). They have a decent leather upper and if You keep maintaining it, the leather alone is probably doing most of the job. On the other hand, I t…

All the shoes which I have used with Gore-Tex without problems were of leather, so that is still consistent with your experience.

Leather is miraculously wonderful stuff, and it should be. Cows and ungulates put up with some damn tough conditions.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#206

Post by chrisseaton »

AYBABTME wrote: post #173
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, goretex shoes are the height of stupid. If water ever goes over the top of the shoes, it is impossible for it to leave the shoe (since it is in liquid phase, not gaseous like water vapor).

I used breathable boots but Goretex long socks (knee high) when doing infantry work in marshlands and wetted wood areas back in the military. It was a winning combination. The boot would get soaked and dry quickly, my feet kept dry. I'd put a lot of foot powder in my socks to avoid sweat ruining my feet. Waterproof boots though are counterproductive.

The problem for me is the failure mode - step into something deeper than you thought, not able to stop and take them off, you’re going to be in trouble. Terrible failure mode worse than not bothering in the first place.

I would wear waterproof socks to dry my boots inside a patrol hide though.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#207

Post by _yb2s »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #138
_yb2s wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree. The breathability of goretex is extremely poor to the point that I consider it a scam. If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable with plain fabric, especially wool. If it is raining, you'll be just as comfortable in a plastic raincoat (especially polyurethane) with pit zips, and you will stay dry a lot longer in a heavy pour. Gore-tex shells don't breath at all unless you keep up the DWR…

My guess is that you do not live in a climate that resembles, say, the British Isles. Goretex was a total game changer in these environments (and as noted by other commenters, similarly in the PNW in N.America). > If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable with plain fabric, especially wool. If it is raining, you'll be just as comfortable in a plastic raincoat (especially polyurethane) with pit zips, and you…

I am from the PNW and do a ton of hiking in the rain, this is how I came to have such a poor opinion of goretex. I’ll add that I sweat too much on a hard hike for goretex to keep up, which could be a physiological difference that makes it not work for me. Sweat will literally be pouring out the bottom of the shell.

For the light constant rain in the PNW, wool with the natural lanolin intact will keep me dry all day with incredible breathability. There are a few companies that make high end wool based gear. I’m also curious if you’ve actually tried a modern higher end polyurethane shell (not PVC) that has well designed vents all over it, or are you just talking about old fashioned PVC “oilskins” which lack good vents?

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#208

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

refurb wrote: post #203
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_impact_of_asbestos#Bi... Fibers so small they tangle up with your chromosomes are the physical properties that can cause cancer

Please don't quote wikipedia. That's a theory from the 70's.

I rather believe Wikipedia than random strangers on the internet

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#209

Post by ethbr0 »

gorbypark wrote: post #197
starefossen wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I have herd (but I was unable to find any written source at this point) the sampling only applies to the Gore-Tex Pro Shell brand. Meaning that products needs to be sent in and certified by Gore before they can be sold under that name.

I don’t have any sources to back this up, but I’ve heard that Gore Tex Pro is actually complete fabrics supplied by Gore. “Regular” Gore-Tex has the face and backing layers added by the manufacturer, where Gore Tex Pro comes with the face and backing layers. The Pro fabrics also require being sewn in a “Gore certified” factory. A lot of this is just rumours and hearsay picked up from living in a resort town, lots of…

The sampling for "regular" Gore-TEX (read: layers added by manufacturer) makes sense from a product standpoint.

If your selling point is waterproofness, and waterproofness can be destroyed by bad assembly... assembly is directly linked to your perceived product value.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#210

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #171
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, goretex shoes are the height of stupid. If water ever goes over the top of the shoes, it is impossible for it to leave the shoe (since it is in liquid phase, not gaseous like water vapor).

Hard disagree. Goretex motorcycling boots are a godsend. You can easily get a lot of water on the shoes, and if you have waterproof pants that go over the boots, the water will not get inside. Regular shoes that basically don't breathe are unusable when it's more than 20-25º C. It's not always practical to carry around two pairs of boots when out on a trip. My pair of boots are usable in the rainy European winters at…

Thanks for an excellent description of a use-case where they make sense. Sounds great!
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