Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

g147.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 267 posts

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#201

Post by lottin »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #191
lottin wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A so-called 'smart contract' is not a replacement for a contract. Just because you call something a contract doesn't mean it is. The same applies to 'decentralised finance'. It's not finance unless it can do financing, and defi can't.

my dude, do you always evaluate things for what they are rather than what they could be?

Well, obviously, we're discussing facts right? In a world of fantasy pigs might fly, but I don't know what is the point of bringing this up in this discussion.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#202

Post by pwinnski »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #190
mlsu wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes internet commerce any different from any other commerce? I will absolutely make this bet. We already see it. Countries who don't like to play by the rules of US trade -- those who resist signing trade agreements and using our currency develop or attempt to develop alternatives, and if they lack the capability to do so, they turn to other powers (basically: China). Economic activity gets silo'd into blocs,…

> No country at all runs their internet economy on some cryptocurrency or cryptocomputation stack. And they never will, no matter how "decentralized" it is. Yep. They won't. They will centralize control even more and things that are not as conducive for the ruling power will likely get delisted and deplatformed. Which is precisely why building out the decentralized web matters. At the very least, there should be an a…

We have a decentralized web, right alongside the centralized web. It does't require any sort of crypto to function, and functions better without crypto added.

Crypto is just another variety of wall.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#203

Post by rhn_mk1 »

smoldesu wrote: post #104
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking that web 3 would be fitting for ActivityPub, WebTorrent, Namecoin and IPFS.

No? ActivityPub is a protocol over HTTP - that's solidly last-gen. IPFS is caught between iterations but IMO is solidly Web2, and WebTorrent/Namecoin are abstractions over pre-existing technology. I think that's appropriate for a Web2.1 starter-pack, maybe.

What's next-gen is the federation, as opposed to the centralization of the current-gen. HTTP has nothing to do with it, even the "semantic 3.0" didn't ditch it.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#204

Post by pwinnski »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #191
lottin wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A so-called 'smart contract' is not a replacement for a contract. Just because you call something a contract doesn't mean it is. The same applies to 'decentralised finance'. It's not finance unless it can do financing, and defi can't.

my dude, do you always evaluate things for what they are rather than what they could be?

Absolutely! 100%, twice over. What a thing is is real. What a thing could be is limited only by one's imagination, and my imagination with regard to crypto has been burned to the tune of $1.7 trillion as of May, 2022[0].

If you'd started with the disclosure of your money-colored sunglasses, you'd have saved everybody here the time of reading your comments.

0. https://twitter.com/SuburbanDrone/status/1524870565806366730

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#205

Post by hailwren »

pavlov wrote: post #135
k__ wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't say something that's generally beloved like Urbit! By the logic of web3 critics, everything they consider 'good' isn't part of web3.

Is this sarcasm? Urbit is one of the most obfuscated and bizarre software projects in history. It makes TempleOS look like a model of clarity and common sense. If Urbit is now a flag-bearer for web3, I don’t think the aforementioned mother-in-law will have to worry about trying to understand this stuff during her lifetime.

You moved the goalposts a fair amount between

> Not just “we’re still working out some of the details,” but literally none of it exists.

and

> flag-bearer for web3

These are projects that are attempting solutions. I wasn’t claiming they work, but they’re figuring things out and seeing what needs to be rebuilt to get a working social model on top of web3.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#206

Post by pwinnski »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #89
g147 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my eyes on AAVE. https://twitter.com/ArkhamIntel/status/1595041038824923136

That's the protocol working exactly as it's designed. Everything was transparently visible. Anyone could see where the funds were at any given point, what the liquidation price was, and what the total liabilities were. If you ride a fast motorcycle and fall off because you were speeding, it's not really the fault of the motorcycle, is it?

Interesting metaphor you chose.

Yes, it is the fault of the motorcycle. You can "fall off" a motorcycle because of the design of a motorcycle, and it's something that doesn't happen with a car. Cars have risks when speeding as well, but they're different, and lesser, because of the protections afford by the car itself.

It's like you're subtly trying to highlight how terrible crypto is, but not realizing it.

Let's expand the decentralized web without building a crypto wall around it.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#207

Post by smoldesu »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #203
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? ActivityPub is a protocol over HTTP - that's solidly last-gen. IPFS is caught between iterations but IMO is solidly Web2, and WebTorrent/Namecoin are abstractions over pre-existing technology. I think that's appropriate for a Web2.1 starter-pack, maybe.

What's next-gen is the federation, as opposed to the centralization of the current-gen. HTTP has nothing to do with it, even the "semantic 3.0" didn't ditch it.

That's not next-gen. Federation has existed since the 90s in the form of P2P trackers and other networking paradigms. HTTP has everything to do with it because Mastodon is built on a client-server model (not a peer-to-peer one) which is the textbook definition of a Web2 network.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#208

Post by pwinnski »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #138
joneholland wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What. Is this trolling? Modern credit payments from a consumer standpoint is tap a card or a phone on a reader.

With a 2.5% fee to Visa

Which, in the US, is paid by the vendor, and so invisible. And worth it, given the protections against fraud, etc.

If you're claiming that there are vendors giving a 2.5% discount for using crypto for anything, you've got some evidence to produce.

P.S. It's not always 2.5%, either. Could be 1.5% at scale.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#209

Post by rvz »

wpietri wrote: post #76
douglaswlance wrote: post #39

>The real single reason for which I believe that all this will come tumbling down is cause of the fact that all this is falsely hyped as being something better than its predecessors but in reality it is not. How so? If you're saying that this is the one single reason, then you have to support it with evidence.

They really don't. Not every document has to include all things relevant back to the big bang. That bit in particular has been discussed by lots of people for quite a while, including a ton of posts right here, so if you just fell off the turnip truck and are truly unaware of the web3 critiques, a little searching should set you straight. Heck, I'll even give you a place to start: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

> Heck, I'll even give you a place to start: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

Yeah, 'Days since a car did not crash into another car. hence why all cars are dangerous and will never take off over horse and carriages'. - Car skeptic.

By now there should have been a worldwide 100% complete total ban on crypto a long time ago, just like the usage of Tor. Why didn't this happen? It's simply due to the fact that it is close to impossible to ban all of it. Regulators and crypto skeptics already know this, and instead both crypto supporters and skeptics will compromise and enforce regulations on cryptocurrencies, exchanges, etc.

Hence, only some cryptocurrencies, exchanges will survive past regulations and will continue to be widely used. I'm afraid crypto is here to stay like it or not.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#210

Post by pwinnski »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #149
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paying for things with a crypto wallet is legitimately a far, far better experience than fumbling around with credit cards. ... and when you talk about "experience", what do you mean here? I doubt there's a much slicker payment experience than Apple Pay when a vendor supports that, and I'm also pretty sure that my disputing a transaction with Chase is better than an equivalent crypto experience.

I mean paying for things online. Should have mentioned that. I bought a subscription to a tool called Icy.tools a while back. The sign-up process was as follows: - Click the "Sign-Up" button on the website - Click the "Sign" button on the web wallet pop-up. - Click "Pay" on the next screen - Click "Approve Transaction" on the web wallet pop up. That's it. No forms to fill. No emails to share. No credit card info to f…

So are you just so into crypto you've lost track of what real life is like?

I use Sign In with Apple[0], and it's literally a single click which hides my email, and one more click with biometric confirmation for payments. That's... one fewer click than crypto, and was easier to set up than your crypto wallet, without putting my funds at risk.

0. https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/

Post reply on HN