Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

cpsc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 415 posts

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#201

Post by pxmpxm »

WD-42 wrote: post #176
Glide wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something more inherent that makes an electric unicycles more dangerous, other than they make them go ridiculous speeds? I would have thought the larger wheel on an EUC made it more stable and the higher power makes it not have to nosedive. I kind of prefer e-bikes because they are well… normal.

I think it really comes down to the fact that these single wheelers don't support the operator without power. You can stand on skateboard, slow down, and come to a complete halt and it's still working as intended. On a bike you will eventually topple from one side or the other, but the way a bikes works means the rider is supported in a natural position for a long time. When the one-wheeler loses power it just nosedi…

This - the product has horrible human factors engineering in the low power scenario:

The rider will always be ahead of his/her center gravity when the board starts decelerating unexpectedly, and it's irrelevant whether it's the front digging in, or the thing just decelerating when approaching low battery.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#202

Post by conductr »

WD-42 wrote: post #176
Glide wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something more inherent that makes an electric unicycles more dangerous, other than they make them go ridiculous speeds? I would have thought the larger wheel on an EUC made it more stable and the higher power makes it not have to nosedive. I kind of prefer e-bikes because they are well… normal.

I think it really comes down to the fact that these single wheelers don't support the operator without power. You can stand on skateboard, slow down, and come to a complete halt and it's still working as intended. On a bike you will eventually topple from one side or the other, but the way a bikes works means the rider is supported in a natural position for a long time. When the one-wheeler loses power it just nosedi…

Even on my longboard I really brace myself when letting off the throttle at speed. The regenerative brakes provide a jolt. Also it’s possible to accidentally hit the brake which would likely be a wipe out. It could be because I’m heavier now than my younger days. Forward momentum is a bitch on these speeds.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#203

Post by 1attice »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #19
FpUser wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"heartily recommend that other early adopters think about voluntarily seeking out additional training" Alternatively one can stop being an idiot and ride at safe speed. I bet that "additional training" would require at least this kind of sanity

Safety is conditional to a lot more than speed.

...and yet the future continuity of your consciousness itself depends on at least a minimum-viable level of safety!

What a diabolical tradeoff :D

something-something anthropic principle

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#204

Post by rx_tx »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #195
sometimeshuman wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The OneWheel only does about half the balancing work" -- It's more like 99% of the work and I defy anyone to stay balanced and keep riding free wheel if the power suddenly cuts out. The OneWheel's balancing algorithm is so good it gives the the illusion of competence after less than an hour.

> I defy anyone to stay balanced and keep riding free wheel if the power suddenly cuts out. Does the wheel actually freewheel if the power cuts? I've not played with one (yet), but with the reports of them dipping forward, I was curious if the wheel/motor actually locked up.

I think it's because as the rider is leaning forward to indicate a desire for forward motion, the board drives the motor to move you forward, but also counters the natural tendency of the front lip to just touch the floor. If the motor cuts off while you are leaning forward, the lip will immediately hid the floor and stop you. And your muscle memory isn't expecting that kind of balancing, having been used to the board "fighting you back" on leaning forward too much.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#206

Post by unstatusthequo »

thembones wrote: post #29

Never been able to understand why these don't come by default on the Onewheels: https://land-surf.com/products/new-fangs-gt-built-tough-to-r... I put these on mine and love em. They work well and prevent exactly what's being described.

I have these. Not sure if they offer a false sense of security or not. But, to me, it increases the chances of me not having a catastrophic injury. I also don’t try to go 30mph downhill without protective gear. Full TSG Pass Pro helmet & wrist guards. Still fun.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#207

Post by unstatusthequo »

birdman3131 wrote: post #32
thembones wrote: post #29

Never been able to understand why these don't come by default on the Onewheels: https://land-surf.com/products/new-fangs-gt-built-tough-to-r... I put these on mine and love em. They work well and prevent exactly what's being described.

But then it would be a 5 wheel.

Probably 3. I am not sure who puts them on both ends ;)

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#208

Post by 1attice »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #27
FpUser wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"heartily recommend that other early adopters think about voluntarily seeking out additional training" Alternatively one can stop being an idiot and ride at safe speed. I bet that "additional training" would require at least this kind of sanity

Are you saying that 25mph is inherently unsafe? What's the safe speed then, for a normal dry day? Does this speed limit apply to motorcycles too?

Goodness, no! There is no such thing as 'inherence' when discussing safety, that's a category mistake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake

I will say, anecdotally, that 25mph can sometimes, or even often, be unsafe on several popular brands of e-bike.

There are lots of reasons for this, but anecdotally, tire thickness, wheel diameter, rider height/stance, and braking system quality all seem to contribute, along with a lot of other factors that are hard to reason about beforehand, but easy to read off crash statistics, if you have data of sufficient quality.

The one factor that is really counterintuitive for me is weight. We learned in the motorcycle course that a heavier motorbike will actually be safer in, for example, rainy conditions, as the weight of the internal-combustion engine pushes the motorbike against the earth, expelling water from between the tread and the asphalt.

E-bikes, however, are often bicycle-ish in weight -- only twice as heavy as a standard bicycle, say, instead of ten times as heavy, which is what a motorcycle is. Nevertheless, they still vroom at motorbike-ish speeds.

This makes e-bikes "inherently" more dangerous in icing conditions, in comparison to an ICE motorbike, as there is less weight holding the business end of your e-bike-tire flush with the asphalt.

But 'inherently' is in scare-quotes above because it's still not quite right to say that every e-bike will be more dangerous because of this -- and I'm sure the market is already working on mitigations.

Tradeoffs, all the way down

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#209

Post by alistairSH »

butterguns wrote: post #152
ramesh31 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing how to fall is such an incredibly important life skill, it's baffling to watch people who never learned it. As a ski instructor, you could instantly tell from their first fall the kids who would get it and stick with it from the ones who would be sitting in the lodge pouting after an hour.

I know how to fall (intellectually). How do I translate that into the real world? I took a nasty fall on my MTB this summer, broke my shoulder. Everything was instinctual and a blur. Can we somehow retrain our innate responses?

Practice. In mountain bike terms, that means lots of slower/easier terrain, with occasional “soft” falls. If there are skills areas in any of your trail networks, those are great. Trail running can help - you’ll eventually trip and you’re closer to the ground and going a bit slower, so you have a bit more time to react (tuck and roll, hopefully).

That said, broken collar-bones (along with separated shoulders) are one of the most common serious cycling injury. I’m one of the very few of my friends who hasn’t broken one. And several friends have broken or separated each shoulder multiple times.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#210

Post by Cheswick32 »

zamalek wrote: post #107
advisedwang wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous generally, but a specific product flaw.

I am absolutely no fan of Future Motion, and I ditched my OneWheel in protest. This isn't entirely a product flaw and comes down to physics: the board pushes you back (by lifting the front) to indicate that you are exceeding it's capacity to balance (all balancing products have a limit, with no exceptions). It will also push back when the battery is low. Either way, ignoring pushback is how people "suddenly have the…

What would you recommend as an alternative?
Post reply on HN