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I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

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Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#201

Post by mattmcknight »

codemac wrote: post #97
nostromo wrote: post #53

When I see these stories taking companies to task over why they sell what they do, I always wonder why nobody holds consumers to task. For example: why doesn't Lego sell to girls? Why doesn't Barbie have more realistic features? Why don't car manufacturers offer an electric vehicle? Why doesn't McDonalds sell salads instead of fries? Why do record labels offer such crappy music? It's easy to blame the companies -- bu…

I blame companies instead of consumers because they market the shit out this stuff. No one is born with an innate desire for that specific Barbie or Lego set. The companies market to you, make you feel like you want it. The companies may not be able to change the entire macro environment, but they actively profit and exploit it. So yea, they are way more to blame than what 11 year old girls think their place in the w…

Yeah, but they used to market stuff to girls, and generically, but they started doing analytics and switched to marketing stuff that sells more- branded toys to boys. A minor variation in natural preference is expanded by the feedback loop.

That said- you can still buy all of the plain bricks you want from their website. If you don't want the complicated sets, don't buy them. The blocks on their own are fine.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#202

Post by pyre »

billpatrianakos wrote: post #158
lemming wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but if they never try to do it because society tells them that they shouldn't (devil's advocate here, not claiming this is what happens) then we're missing out on 50% of the potential cancer-curing talent who, by your argument, are equally capable of doing so but end up shampooing dogs or whatever instead.

But then if they're equally capable but prefer shampooing dogs then is that really a problem? All of us are capable of things that we prefer not to do. I was on a track to become a doctor but decided to program instead. I'm capable of both but prefer not to be a doctor. See what I mean?

  > if they're equally capable but prefer shampooing dogs
  > then is that really a problem
The problem is that their like/dislikes/personalities are not formed in a bubble. Society has influence over these things.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#203

Post by afterburner »

nostromo wrote: post #53

When I see these stories taking companies to task over why they sell what they do, I always wonder why nobody holds consumers to task. For example: why doesn't Lego sell to girls? Why doesn't Barbie have more realistic features? Why don't car manufacturers offer an electric vehicle? Why doesn't McDonalds sell salads instead of fries? Why do record labels offer such crappy music? It's easy to blame the companies -- bu…

"Why don't car manufacturers offer an electric vehicle? "

Really? After the early attempts were basically just cover projects doomed to be cancelled? After car companies bought up streetcar companies in the US in order to run them down and close them? You really think consumers should be taken to task over Big Oil and the Big Three?

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#204

Post by rsheridan6 »

nostromo wrote: post #53

When I see these stories taking companies to task over why they sell what they do, I always wonder why nobody holds consumers to task. For example: why doesn't Lego sell to girls? Why doesn't Barbie have more realistic features? Why don't car manufacturers offer an electric vehicle? Why doesn't McDonalds sell salads instead of fries? Why do record labels offer such crappy music? It's easy to blame the companies -- bu…

Or maybe, just maybe, "why don't girls want to play with Legos?" Children aren't just blank slates to be shaped by their parents and advertisers.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#205

Post by einhverfr »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #100
nostromo wrote: post #53

When I see these stories taking companies to task over why they sell what they do, I always wonder why nobody holds consumers to task. For example: why doesn't Lego sell to girls? Why doesn't Barbie have more realistic features? Why don't car manufacturers offer an electric vehicle? Why doesn't McDonalds sell salads instead of fries? Why do record labels offer such crappy music? It's easy to blame the companies -- bu…

It goes along with the "soft bigotry of low expectations". We've come to a common mental model of the world that disempowers the individual, especially in the realm of responsibilities. The state and the corporation are the sole seats of responsibility and of blame, and thus the sole seats of power. It's more than a little disturbing to see people willingly disempower themselves in such a fashion for so little in ret…

All I can say is my son hacks lego sets. He also hacks M4 science kits occasionally too. The fact that it is a model kit doesn't mean that after the model is done, you can't tear it apart and put it in a spare parts box that can be used for freeform building.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#206

Post by pyre »

burgerbrain wrote: post #44
dmm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't understand why my comment does nothing to advance the conversation. The poster ericabiz says the US needs more women scientists and I asked her if she was a scientist. If not, I was going to ask her why she wasn't. EDIT: I don't give a damn what ericabiz does. I wanted to know whether she really believed toys or suggestive advertising or whatever was really to blame for the lack of women in science. Becau…

We need more brain surgeons. We also need more welders. Why am I not simultaneously a brain surgeon and a welder? Baffling stuff!

We must make brain surgery and welding less baffling!

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#207

Post by rakete »

JonnieCache wrote: post #175
mvzink wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree, but there's a missing element in this economic model, though one that others have mentioned (cf. sunahsuh's comment): marketing. If you look at Marx, or even Smith, it's clear that the wants and demands of the consumers are not always organic, but are often fabricated by the companies themselves. Smith thought this was cool, Marx thought it was evil; in any case, you are right to some extent, but few…

The person responsible for this, and much of the modern world, is Edward Bernays, the "father of public relations". He got most of his ideas from his uncle, Sigmund Freud. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Everyone interested in Bernays and how modern Marketing and Public Relations came into existence (and how they are used to control/manipulate us) should take the time and watch the four part BBC documentation 'The Century of the Self' by Adam Curtis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#208

Post by einhverfr »

maximusprime wrote: post #145
lambda wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hard wired I keep on hearing those words with respect to brains. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. Brains are not "hard wired" for much. They are really quite malleable and adaptable. They are affected by many things in the environment; experience, culture, training. The biggest differences between male and female children will come about from how they are raised, not innate differences. Once they…

You state these things as if they are fact. I disagree. People are born with different strengths and weaknesses. They may have particular skill in certain areas. If brains are just "general" "maleable" "matter", then why as a man am I attracted to women and not men? I certainly didn't "learn" that. I'm attracted to women, because my brain was hard wired like that. So you don't think people are "born gay"?

I actually don't think people are born gay or born straight. I think there are biological factors in sexual orientation but these are hardly determinative. Instead most people are born somewhere along the bisexuality spectrum and end up defining themselves as gay or straight as a way of dealing with unacceptable sexual urges.

The fact is that if you look at male-male sexual relations in a place like Greece or Rome, the differences in structure and approach to gender and sex are markedly in contrast to how we approach things in our society today.

I personally think that one element of the argument that people are born gay, in the context of a culture which aggressively sells the idea that heterosexuality is normal, is to tell people, "you aren't born gay, are you?"

Edit: I could point people to longer write-ups I have done on this subject but the above I think is a fair summary of what cross-study and trans-historical comparisons have lead me to believe.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#209

Post by mkramlich »

two reactions:

1. yes and after you buy that specific-model-guns-ships set you can (b) build anything you want with it; (b) build model put on shelf never touch (or play with it); (c) build model then tear it apart and use pieces to make something from your imagination, etc. there are no rules. there are both generic brick-like pieces and special-purpose pieces and they can be put together in literally millions of ways, and now you can even see and share photos on the web, both for ideas and showing off.

2. girls really are different from boys, overall, and in the general case; I've lost track of the number of males I've known that like/liked LEGO and the number of girls/women that were like, "meh"; and I've seen first-hand, with my own eyes, over and over again, that my young nieces LOVE to play with dolls and dresses and princesses and jewelry, whereas LEGO's and guns? meh

LEGO is like a shining beacon in a sea of sludge and noise, in terms of educational value for kids and long-term replayability into adulthood, compared to most other toys. Criticizing LEGO is a bit like criticizing Michael Jordan for missing some shots in a game. It's Michael Jordan, mmkay?

Instructions show you how to build what's on the box. You are not required to do that, nor are you even required to buy LEGO at all.

Re: I'm starting to think LEGO is evil

#210

Post by pyre »

dgabriel wrote: post #30
bryanlarsen wrote: post #18

I'm having trouble understanding the backlash against the new Lego for girls initiative. As the father of a couple of pre-school girls, I'm loving the new initiative. It appears to consist of 3 things: - realistic looking minifigs. Not square and not oversexed. - additional brick colors, and not just pink. - sets not based on movie tie-ins, but in real-world locations like an inventor's workshop, a café, an animal ho…

It's the hard gender division. Why are there "girl legos," and "boy legos"? And it also seems like they're offering the same "girl themed" play sets that all the other toys offer, except you have to put it together first. Who plays with lego that way?

  > And it also seems like they're offering the same "girl
  > themed" play sets that all the other toys offer, except
  > you have to put it together first. Who plays with lego
  > that way?
You could easily describe all the boy-targeted movie tie-in Lego sets that same way. Heck you can describe any Lego set that way. I had a Lego train set and a freighter with a dock as a kid (as an example). You could easily claim that these were no different than "an HO train set that you have to put together first" and "a toy boat that you have to put together first."
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