We kept missing deadline after deadline, and it was starting to become apparent, even to the board. The board sent the most technical board member to talk to us to see if the team and architecture were plausible, the founder unilaterally fired the VP, and hired the guy he wanted all along. Things turned around instantly, once the new VP focused on the right things. Five years later, company was sold and now, nine years later, the product still exists at the acquiring company.
Story: “It would be career limiting..."
201–210 of 342 posts
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#202I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
The skill of reading a room in this particular case - is to realize the kind of place this is and go elsewhere before going through all that effort for it be disregarded by bruised egos, not do even more unnecessary work to bail out incompetent managers.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The people around me were trying to hint that things aren't quite as clear cut as it seems, but it took a swift kick in my backside to reboot my worldview. Was your rebooted worldview that you had been factually incorrect (i.e. the senior dev actually did do his work) or was it that you were factually correct, but hierarchy and office culture demanded that everyone pretend you weren't?
I wanted to touch on that: one of the things you learn is that it’s better to be liked than right. We devs often fixate on whether we’re right and the other person is wrong. One specific incident comes to mind. I was working on Heroes of Newerth, a DotA clone. We achieved a bit of popularity in those days, and we reached around 50k concurrent users. So our servers tended to melt. One day, the servers went south, and…
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#204When you are in kindergarten, there are kids who build forts, and kids who play musical chairs. The skills for each are mutually exclusive, where one requires co-operation, creativity, and shared vision, and the other requires an understanding of the dynamic between power and limited resources. If you mess with the fort building kid, you're probably going to get called dumb and shoved, and if you mess with the musical chairs playing kid, they will find a way to make sure you get cooties or find an authority to tell on you to. Nothing much really changes.
Engineers build forts, middle managers play musical chairs, and if you show them them they are being dumb, they will edge you out in some variation of a purity game, because on a deep level they don't need a fort, they just need a chair when the music slows down, and for someone else to get cooties first. An enterprise project is either a zero sum credit and status game or an attrition game. In most large orgs, it's the latter. You don't win attrition games, you survive them, which means understanding when the music is slowing down, and keeping track of who is most likly to flame out and rage quit or get cooties, because if you can't see who it is, it's you. Personally, I like solving problems and unblocking engineers so they can build amazing forts, but you can't do that if you don't have a seat when the music stops, so you learn to balance the skills without antagonizing people who are over invested in one technique or the other.
It's amazing when you can just make stuff people want and get paid for it, but as soon as you do that, there's going to be someone else there showing up to find it, inventing something to be unhappy about or promising it to someone else to extract more value from it for themselves, and you get drawn into the same games again. Being smart about it is recognizing the cycle for what it is and setting personal boundaries that allow you to navigate without becoming a target.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
What a horrible truth, hate to upvote but you may be right. But why is it engineers who must rise to the political occasion?
Everyone should rise to the political occasion. Why is that the engineers should not rise? Politics is how we solve problems without resorting to fists.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#206There is also another way of looking at this doomed project. 1. A client didn't know what they wanted, had 60 million to spend on figuring it out, and hired a firm that would let them spend 60 million. 2. The firm was incentivized to provide a nice looking underestimate and then adapt as new work was discovered. 3. The firm continued getting paid as long as the client was happy. 4. The client did not want to be told…
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The people around me were trying to hint that things aren't quite as clear cut as it seems, but it took a swift kick in my backside to reboot my worldview. Was your rebooted worldview that you had been factually incorrect (i.e. the senior dev actually did do his work) or was it that you were factually correct, but hierarchy and office culture demanded that everyone pretend you weren't?
I wanted to touch on that: one of the things you learn is that it’s better to be liked than right. We devs often fixate on whether we’re right and the other person is wrong. One specific incident comes to mind. I was working on Heroes of Newerth, a DotA clone. We achieved a bit of popularity in those days, and we reached around 50k concurrent users. So our servers tended to melt. One day, the servers went south, and…
Thanks for the nostalgia hit!
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#208I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
And that's how the Challenger blew up. Sometimes one side is right, and the other side is wrong, and it doesn't matter if they didn't "communicate and strategize" or "read the room". Obviously this guy is probably writing about a Javascript photo-sharing app or something and it doesn't actually matter, but it's the same principle. The managers who went ahead here would have gone ahead with launching the shuttle for t…
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#209It was an internal project, so not even a real customer, other than the massively overfunded HR department.
We were to deliver a massive scope, an entire ecosystem of software/services to provide value for the 100K+ employees.
There was zero actual demand for it. Data clearly showed that the 100K+ employees of this massive company only needed two things: leave management and payslips.
And we were to add some 40 services to that, from a vast ecosystem of external vendors, homegrown crap, and integrating it all together. Every single piece of this new suite was specced up as if we needed NASA-level reliability.
I was puzzled from the start as to why we're even doing this, but soon realized I was overthinking it. It's busy work. It's one of the twisted incentives in corporations: be frugal and efficient to get punished, spend like a maniac and get rewarded. This is how kingdoms get created and inflate.
HR did not like to work with the internal IT department. Because they have an engineering mindset based on structure, whilst HR favors managing things Game of Thrones style. So to balance things out, not one but two external IT agencies were added to the mix, as "neutral" party between the internal departments. Mistrust from the get-go.
We're talking an army of consultants costing 200$/hr, producing documents and agreements that are treated as nothing but opinion. Some two months into the project, they understood the grim outlook of this project and got into the mindset that every hour of busywork is still revenue.
The customer, HR, acted like children, and that would be an insult to children. They would literally dream up the most outrageous requirements on the spot, just something they would personally like the system to have. Things that cost 100K to build and would save one person 5 minutes of work per week.
Any critical, rational feedback was fully dismissed, even if delivered diplomatically. Do it too often and they'd form coalitions behind your back to sabotage any of your next moves. This was of course a political setup in the making to ultimately blame IT for "failing to deliver".
As nothing actually got delivered for months, the inevitable came to be: let's launch a committee. I was on it. We spent our time producing meeting minutes of no consequence. Much needed hard decisions were unattainable as they required complicated coalition building that usually failed. Every head of every kingdom discussed things one-on-one, as if we're dealing with the mob. After a while, we used the committee basically as extended lunch, chit-chatting.
It took 8 months to deliver a first demo. A demo to ourselves, mind you. No actual user was involved. A few dozen people filled the room to see a tiny bit of poorly implemented functionality that nobody asked for. The mass psychology of it continues to fascinate me. An entire room full of people all knowing this is a sad joke, but nobody speaks up. There's even a forced hint of positivity: great progress, guys.
All of this kept going for nearly two years, after which the project was dissolved. About 25% of the scope was delivered. Our new solution for leave management and pay slips was worse than the old one, and everything else nobody uses. The 75% not delivered at all was fine as nobody wanted it anyway.
Nobody got fired and nobody had to justify the massive spend or any outcomes. In fact, the spend guarantees that a similar budget is to be granted to HR next year. Not spending this much would be very career limiting indeed.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
That's just a fractal version of this same problem. Most of us are here to get work done and earn a living, and not to role play palace intrigue. But certainly it's my experience that this toxicity comes from the top down and I have sympathy with managers who are putting their reports under unreasonable pressure because they are themselves under unreasonable pressure.
Miss-aligned goals do create all kinds of problems, don't they?