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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#201

Post by bergenty »

aerovistae wrote: post #13

Interested in comments from anyone who lives in India or has experience/familiarity with it as to whether reality on the ground matches the rosy picture painted in the article.

In my parents generation, very few people finished high school and college degrees were rare. If we go back to the village now (in southern India), pretty much all the people my age go to college, have professional degrees and have generally moved away from the villages or abroad. But they all send money back and most everyone is visibly comfortable at this point.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#202

Post by spaceman_2020 »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #92
anthropodie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those millions who moved to middle class are also helping the layer below them. These lifted households are spending their wealth on house helps, local grocery stores, taxis/autos and a whole lot of other local businesses. This trickle down effect then boosts development in cities where these IT hubs are located. Even more students then want to join these IT companies and enjoy the lifestyle of their seniors thus con…

You seem to be close to the situation. Do you think Indian Walmart is a future inevitability?

One of the challenges is real estate and parking. Most major Indian cities are extremely crowded with little in the way of parking space or affordable commercial land. Most large stores in major population areas invariably have to pivot to the higher-end to justify the real estate costs.

Driving out 45 minutes just to buy groceries seems futile since every neighbourhood will have dozens of grocery stores that will deliver right at your doorstep (and now, half a dozen quick delivery apps too).

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#203

Post by FooBarWidget »

nsenifty wrote: post #68
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

My first job was in Infosys back in 2001. Coming from a lower-middle class farming family, it was a huge deal. My monthly gross was something my dad (farmer) + mom (school teacher) would earn in an entire year. I remember my dad proudly putting a portrait of NR Narayana Murthy (founder of Infosys) on our wall - it is usually reserved for gods/ancestors or revered sages.

When I see Indian developers, I have in my mind that they're similar to Chinese: the whole village bands together and gather resources to give that one kid a university education and a good job, so that that one kid returns to the village many years later to help people out of poverty.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#204

Post by spaceman_2020 »

akudha wrote: post #106
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

Not everything is rosy though. In cities like Bangalore, real estate is super expensive, thanks to software salaries. The same is happening in second, third tier cities now. But generally speaking, yes, all it takes is one person from a family landing a white collar job. And life becomes (relatively) much better

India’s physical infrastructure has honestly fallen way, way behind our digital infrastructure.

Absurd that I can go a month in India without ever using cash or cards, order everything I want from anywhere and have it delivered within a day (or even minutes), yet it can sometimes take me 45 minutes to travel 3k and that my car’s suspension breaks down at 50k kilometers because there is no public transport and the roads are filled with sinkhole sized potholes.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#205

Post by kodyo »

ginger2016 wrote: post #199
Qtips87 wrote: post #194

Quoted post unavailable.

This opinion is offensive. India is a functioning democracy. Your claim is that the people who vote are lower caste and upper caste won’t vote hence democracy is invalid. Are you suggesting democracy is only valid if upper caste people vote?

He seems to be suggesting that upper caste people don't need or care about democracy, which is true of all democracies.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#206

Post by eldaisfish »

Qtips87 wrote: post #194

Quoted post unavailable.

While the first sentence is correct, the rest is just nonsense based on misinterpretations. What evidence do you have that voting is largely lower caste?

If anything, the voting system in India is among the best, most transparent and most accessible in the world and that is really something amazing.

Beyond voting, India is largely an electoral autocracy and their idea of “democracy” is really stretching the definition so you are accurate there.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#207

Post by Qtips87 »

ginger2016 wrote: post #199
Qtips87 wrote: post #194

Quoted post unavailable.

This opinion is offensive. India is a functioning democracy. Your claim is that the people who vote are lower caste and upper caste won’t vote hence democracy is invalid. Are you suggesting democracy is only valid if upper caste people vote?

What I am saying is that upper caste don't need to vote because they have complete control of the country. Democracy confers power to the people because you would assume people who vote can affect policies to their favor but this is not the case for the people who vote in India. They are totally disenfranchised and marginalized.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#208

Post by spaceman_2020 »

mrtksn wrote: post #141
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

> While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability. The same goes for most "slavery" jobs. A lot of people's fortunes has turned all over the world by working under "inhumane" condition for American or European companies. These are actually good jobs in respect to state…

Have to agree. Anyone who has lived in a third world country knows that a formal job is better than a no job, and that many would absolutely love to work for, say, Foxconn for a steady paycheck.

Some of those stories about workers at Foxconn committing suicide also neglect to mention that the factory town has 1M workers who all live and work there, and that the suicide rate is actually lower than that for a city of equivalent size, or that 1M people living together might hurt themselves for any number of reasons (debts, unrequited love, adultery, etc), not just work.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#209

Post by arein3 »

InTheArena wrote: post #65

This is one of the messages that need to be pushed hard - globalization - with it's implications on the "first world" global middle class - has helped make this possible. It's like talking to people opposed to GMO rice. They are fine with an ideological position that GMO foods should be eliminated until you point out the alternative is hundreds of millions dead of starvation.

It is like cars in a city in a way. You can build larger roads but then more people will start driving.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#210

Post by eldaisfish »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #112
endisneigh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a black eye to the ccp when they’ve lifted twice as many from poverty as India? And far higher growth, gdp per capita, etc. weird comment https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

Because the CCP’s (more specifically Xi Jinping’s) entire thesis is that democracies are incapable of producing good outcomes. A lot of the move towards authoritarianism that we’ve been seeing in the world has been driven by the success of the “China model”. If India is successful to a similar degree as China, that shatters this belief, especially since there are very significant questions about the Chinese economy a…

… but India isn’t successful on the same scale as China. India’s middle class is not secure nor are successive generations guaranteed to remain middle class. That wealth is just not there.

India’s real middle class is just one financial disaster away from poverty. China on the other hand has been immensely successful at lifting millions out of poverty and securing them firmly in the middle class.

Also, if you think India cannot and does not make up numbers, you are completely wrong. See most recently their COVID numbers. See in the past their economic data that was treated at par with garbage by the global community.

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