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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#201

Post by 1270018080 »

causi wrote: post #122
mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

"I hate what you say but I will die defending your right to say it". In all places, these people are curating comments and posts to push agenda. It's incredibly tiresome, not just online but in real life. There is no freedom vs control debate. There's just the people who advocate arresting those who teach their children inconvenient truths vs those who advocate arresting those who use naughty language.

That's kind of a hilarious way to frame each side of the debate. Hilarious in a bad way that doesn't give you the benefit of the doubt on the topic.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#203

Post by berberous »

imjk wrote: post #170
tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

Call me cynical, but I think the likes of Kanye, the Kardashians, Trump, even Elon, etc. are much more calculated than they are deranged. They know how to work the media and manipulate the public better than anyone else. We're living in a world now where journalists are paid by click counts more than quality of content. In the same vein, Kanye and the likes know that the more absurdist and unconventional their action…

Why not both? I agree with you that all of those people know how to play the media to their benefit, but Kanye is also clearly bipolar and currently in one of his episodes, and Trump also clearly is the clinical definition of narcissistic personality disorder. The Kardashians and Elon have their flaws too, but I don’t think they rise to the level of clinical issues in the way that Kanye and Trump do.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#204

Post by PaulHoule »

nailer wrote: post #116
mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

> All those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. Can you give examples?

If you look at it politically, there are people on the right in the US who complain incessantly about cancel culture and how they feel persecuted on Twitter who like to ban books and passed the "don't say gay" legislation in Florida.

CPAC, the conservative PAC, canceled Milo Yiannopoulos when was planning to speak there.

I don't blame them, because Yiannopoulos was always acting in bad faith. If one of his talks hadn't gotten canceled it would have been a personal failure on his part and a clear indication that he didn't go far enough and would have to be even more offensive next time. The point with Yiannopoulos was that he'd get canceled, get attention, find some fool who would pay even more to hear a "controversial" speaker, and repeat the cycle. CPAC wised up to what is going on.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#205

Post by NicoJuicy »

paulpauper wrote: post #165
tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

People keep saying he's sick or he is wrong, yet his popularity keeps growing. Same for net worth. His tweets are getting 3-5x the engagement compared to a year ago. Maybe it's all part of the act.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53501482

Celebrity or not, his actions seem similar to the mentioned illness.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#206

Post by tptacek »

csours wrote: post #149
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. Devil's advocate: there's no way this isn't the case for Kanye, right? Why is this mental illness sparking up later in his life? Why was he able to achieve everything he's achieved 1996 -> 2012 (Roc-A-Fella -> The College Dropout -> My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy era) without these "mental illness" bouts?

That's not how mental illness works. I am not diagnosing Kanye, but look up the progression of bipolar disorder. It is truly terrifying and heartbreaking.

You don't have to diagnose West. He's been diagnosed. He's open about it.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#207

Post by dcow »

Aloha wrote: post #138
mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

Absolute free speech and anonymity is a toxic combination. Free speech in the way it was envisaged in the constitution presumes there is a feedback loop back to the emitter of the speech. Anonymity breaks that feedback loop. Anyone who tells you that free speech without consequences has ever existed pretty much anywhere is lying to themselves and to you. If you want anonymity you need some measure of bounds on speech…

Exactly. Personally I’d rather see more of internet communities/products regulating access to anonymity. This opinion is intensely unpopular around here, but IMO it addresses the root cause. The internet made it instantly easy and cheap to have multiple identities. Don’t get me wrong, we still need that tool in a modern human’s toolset, but it shouldn’t be cheap and easy to generate low value spam. Imagine if Twitter had a community reputation system and Twitter itself never removed any Tweets but just let the community downvote them into nonexistence, like we do here…

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#208

Post by t0suj4 »

shafyy wrote: post #111
mariusor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think moderation should be about the words that are being said, not the ideas that are being discussed. A free speech platform should allow a wide range of topics, but it's not expected to stand for all manner of trolling and bad faith argumentation. I think that conflating the two is tripping a lot of people up in the debate about the topic.

I disagree. There are limits to what ideas constitute free speech in many modern countries. As an extreme example, an idea that puts forward genocide as acceptable form of action should never be allowed under "free speech", even if it's said with nice words. This and other examples are ruled under law in many developed countries.

Those developed countries have people taking their banned speech underground. It is usually also very illegal to take their strongest arguments and argue against them. All you have left is hope that they will never gain stronger support.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#209

Post by princevegeta89 »

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

Could be true.. but doesn't matter as long as they get to liquidate their product for a few hundred millions.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#210

Post by elil17 »

luckylion wrote: post #97
qwerty456127 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are opinions. And I lean to agreeing with them (except I don't think anybody knows a good solution to the problem). Blatant lies/absurd are things like all (or almost all) people of specific race are inherently evil or stupid, they control the state for their wicked aims and there is a gene for specific preferences which ought to be eradicated or we are doomed.

That sounds to me like picking and choosing what's okay because "opinion" and what's not because "blatant lie".

"Capitalism is the problem" is a statement so broad an non-specific that it can not be a lie. Certainly any economic system has problems.

Saying that a specific race is inherently evil is a specific factual claim (one that few people actually make).

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