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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#201
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and give them at least one month notice as well as pay out their unused holidays.

Not really, mutual agreements are a thing. If you pay someone with one month notice 3 months worth of pay to leave on the same day, they would be stupid not to take it.

3 months I feel bit questionable still. As depending on location there might be loss of unemployment benefits.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#202
post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

> I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

This is the first time I've heard of any US company requiring an employee to keep a camera on themselves 9 hours per day. Obviously, that's not some standard US company practice.

I wouldn't be surprised if these same practices would fail in a US court.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#203
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially now with the proxy war between US and Russia This is not a proxy war between the US and Russia. Ukraine nor Russia started this conflict at the behest or instigation of the US. The US (and NATO, the entire western world really) are supportive of Ukraine but it's important to note that Ukraine is not a puppet of the US and that Putin started this conflict.

The war is "between" Russia and Ukraine but the US is funding and arming Ukraine because the US wants to hurt Russia. How is that not the dictionary definition of a "proxy war"? Swap the US and Russia and replace "Ukraine" with "North Vietnam" and you have a historical conflict which everyone agrees was a proxy war. How is this different?

Is it just the US that’s doing this only to hurt Russia? What about the countries that are facing very real consequences to join them? And the countries that have abandoned their long-standing neutrality in order to do so? Could it actually be that all of these countries including the US just actually find it deeply offensive that Russia has decided it’s ok to invade a country and commit atrocities all so that they can tell a free people that, no, you are not allowed to be a free people.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#204
post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

American companies are not as innovative as they think- they just want to turn back the clock to the 19th century.

You're telling me it's not innovative to run psychological experiments on children without any approval from an ethics board? Sounds pretty innovative to me

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#205
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

I got indeed 20 by law and 14 on top of that for a total of 34, but the latter is the exception.

In IT 26-28 days are common.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#206
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well now we are going to get into more unpopular hot takes, because IMO income based taxation is theft.... I do not plain on retiring, and if I did I do not expect government social security (I am in the US) will be there to fund it so I do have a private retirement account that currently the US Monetary policy and government regulations/spending is doing its level best to destroy

Taxes are the membership fee of society

More of a hostage situation given one can’t opt out of said society nor has a choice in joining it.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#207
post #81
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus cue in the shock of US Employees, when they realize his court costs to sue his employer were less than 500 dollars.

In Norwegian civil court, the loser pays the legal bills for both. It may seem a bit harsh, but it does prevent frivolous law suits. For work related cases, if you are in a union, they will foot the bill in most cases.

The loser doesn't always pay for both. In some cases (well, many actually), or at least in cases where party A sues party B and loses, the court decides that it wasn't all clear-cut and party A was right to get a resolution through the court system. In that case both may end up paying their respective legal bills.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#208
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure there are systems in place in these countries which actually make it possible. right?

Like, there are insurances and government assistance programs that businesses use to pay for things like parental leave.

US businesses get no such help. So what is often attributed to US business greed is actually political greed, while businesses are just casualties.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#209
post #194
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it does seem reasonable to me that both sides can expect a notice periods Two weeks is pretty customary and normal in the US. A few months of planned projects being a reason you "can't" leave really is not. I generally have projects in some stage of planning going out a while. That wouldn't mean I'm effectively tied to an employer for te duration.

Being booked out 2-5 months ahead is typical for us. Two weeks is effectively zero notice period because you'll almost always have more remaining days of paid time off than that. If we had to account for N people being able to leave effectively on the spot, we'd not be able to sell more than 8-N persons concurrently (we're a small team), at least not more than a few days ahead. At N=1 person, that's already 13% lower…

Laws permitting--and I assume any extended notice period would be/should be mutual--companies can put any appropriate terms in their employment contracts. But it's certainly not the norm in the US. I'd expect most common would be two weeks notice and you get paid out for any unused paid time off.

For most people, multiple months notice wouldn't work well. Either you quit without an offer in hand and spend half your remaining time job hunting or you have an offer but your potential new employer won't wait more than a month. I'd certainly think very hard before entering into such an arrangement as it would make getting a new job riskier.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#210
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

Like paying schools from taxes and never have kids, or paying fire fighters and your house never burns. It's called society.

Well I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly, like water instead of having it obfuscated in general taxation. I prefer user fees not taxation.

as for schools, to the extent I support their funding (which is more limited than I suspect you do) it is generally ethically justified because I too attended schools paid for by taxation, so in that manner I paying off a debt vs paying for others. Granted it is a debt I did not consent to, and had no option to opt out of but still there is that ethical foundation

None of that exist for what we are talking about here

and I absolutely reject the idea of a "social contract"

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