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Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

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Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#201
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple runs a competitor for that too with iMessage so I’d call it a wash. Ditto on the AR/VR metaverse thing if macrumors is to be believed.

Are you in the USA? iMessage is only really relevant in the USA. Meanwhile, Whatsapp is huge in Latin America, Europe, Africa, parts of Asia

I’d rephrase as “In the US, only iMessage is relevant”

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#202
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple runs a competitor for that too with iMessage so I’d call it a wash. Ditto on the AR/VR metaverse thing if macrumors is to be believed.

Are you in the USA? iMessage is only really relevant in the USA. Meanwhile, Whatsapp is huge in Latin America, Europe, Africa, parts of Asia

Popularity doesn’t have any affect on how many people you need to build it.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#203
post #182

It’s crazy to me how Facebook has so many employees when their entire business is basically managing 3 software products (Facebook, instagram and the advertising platform). Meanwhile I think Apple has about the same number of employees if you subtract the retail Apple store workers. Yet, Apple’s business is comprised of managing, and this is only a rough guess: - 30+ hardware products and their supply chain, marketin…

You’re forgetting that they also own WhatsApp, the primary mode of communication for several countries.

pre-facebook wasn't that run by 50 people?

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#204
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Maybe best at grinding LeetCode, best at playing office politics, best at tolerating toxic work environments... But likely not best in actually building good software. No doubt quite good at that, but probably not meaningfully different than any other tech company in the area hiring from a similar talent pool. And because the candidates also need to be optimized for the qualities mentioned in the first parag…

I get the desire to look down on leetcode or on Facebook generally but do you really think that Facebook would be able to operate at this scale if they didn't have good engineers? They have billions of customers using their products all the time. This isn't done by useless people who know only LC and office politics. They have to solve technical problems that most other software engineers don't even know exist. Havin…

The projects you cite don't require 100s of FTE engineers.

Due to the absurd amount of SWEs on Facebook, surely someone or a team happen to working there will score a huge FOSS hit sooner or later just due to the numbers.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a massive difference between constructive dismissal and managing out. Managing out can often be as simple as a manager saying "Hey, your performance isn't great your not on course to get any bonus or raise this year" and the employee deciding "Fuck this, I'm off". Instead of in normal times, where you're trying to retain people and the conversation is often "Hey, you're making really good progress but there's…

Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.

It’s not just that. It’s usually a combination of low bonuses/stock rewards, minimal raises, no promotions, uninteresting/less meaningful work, and less effort put into coaching them. Basically all of the stuff managers should be doing normally.

If someone’s on the receiving end of all of those things they’ll usually leave sooner or later. Who wouldn’t want to?

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#206
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the desire to look down on leetcode or on Facebook generally but do you really think that Facebook would be able to operate at this scale if they didn't have good engineers? They have billions of customers using their products all the time. This isn't done by useless people who know only LC and office politics. They have to solve technical problems that most other software engineers don't even know exist. Havin…

The projects you cite don't require 100s of FTE engineers. Due to the absurd amount of SWEs on Facebook, surely someone or a team happen to working there will score a huge FOSS hit sooner or later just due to the numbers.

Like I said, the open source stuff is a nice bonus. The main testament to Facebook's engineering level is that they're successfully shipping several of the largest scale software products ever to billions of people. And you certainly need a large engineering headcount for that.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#207
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the USA? iMessage is only really relevant in the USA. Meanwhile, Whatsapp is huge in Latin America, Europe, Africa, parts of Asia

Popularity doesn’t have any affect on how many people you need to build it.

Presumably a lot of these are content moderation staff, often much cheaper than engineers. Facebook claimed to have made good progress in the last year automating moderation, but could also just be backing off on moderation to reduce costs at increased risk of regulation.

Often that kind of staff will be employed via agencies, so it's difficult to really compare between companies as we don't have the numbers. For instance, Apple presumably need a lot of staff to moderate apple pay, but if they have outsourced the rolls we won't know how many there are or see if they get cut.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a massive difference between constructive dismissal and managing out. Managing out can often be as simple as a manager saying "Hey, your performance isn't great your not on course to get any bonus or raise this year" and the employee deciding "Fuck this, I'm off". Instead of in normal times, where you're trying to retain people and the conversation is often "Hey, you're making really good progress but there's…

Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.

Bonus can represent 20 to 40 percent of one's total comp at these companies

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#209

It’s crazy to me how Facebook has so many employees when their entire business is basically managing 3 software products (Facebook, instagram and the advertising platform). Meanwhile I think Apple has about the same number of employees if you subtract the retail Apple store workers. Yet, Apple’s business is comprised of managing, and this is only a rough guess: - 30+ hardware products and their supply chain, marketin…

Facebook, Instagram, Meta (which is Oculus hardware and all the metaverse...stuff), Whatsapp, ads, Portal (which includes hardware). It still seems bloated, but they do a wide variety of things, including running their own enormo-scale platform, in addition to doing things on AWS.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#210
post #198

Does anyone even remember Libra?

AKA that time Facebook tried developing a payments product on the premise that KYC and AML laws didn't apply to them.

To be fair, apart from pesky regulations and “outdated 1980s banking rules”, I’d bet Facebook do a way better job of “knowing their customer” than any traditional bank does…
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