201–210 of 271 posts
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Taiwan's government would never allow TSMC to be acquired, it's key to their national security
If Apple owned TSMC, wouldn't that make Taiwan more secure, since the US would have more of an interest?
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Sure, but good luck with that endeavor. Samsung and Intel are struggling to keep up with TSMC despite decades of expertise in the field and very deep pockets, so starting from scratch even with infinite money isn't gonna be a picnic. And won't solve Apple problem in the short term.
If there is one thing modern Apple is famous for, it is to dislike any situation where they depend on one single external vendor for anything. Apple wants either a somewhat healthy competition (e.g. with batteries, screens or assembly where misbehaving suppliers can be replaced rapidly) or vertical integration - and their acquisition of Intel's mobile modem business shows they think in long terms anyway. In any case,…
You could be completely successful in making chips at small node sizes and have someone out-compete you, meaning your chips are less performant than the competition and you look worse, and it cost you tens of billions of dollars to get there. That's what samsung and intel have been experiencing for several years now.
One thing apple isn't famous for is manufacturing cpus. It's hard. They buy parts from other companies and pay yet another company to assemble them. There is no one to buy or fund to instantly catch up, and even if you did, next year you may be out again.
It's not an easy problem where throwing money means you win, and apple has the most money.
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The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if they’ll join a secret lobby agitating for war between China and Taiwan, if Apple can’t get 6% off TMSC then no-one can. Then build a US based plant subsidized with taxpayer money.
In that scenario how does Apple source all the parts made in China? They would be better off paying the 6%
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One thing I'm wondering about is which side leaked this news item, and what their goal was
I'd bet this is part of the negotiation, going by the way the article hammers on the risk to TSMC.
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Yep, but TSMC don’t manufacture the main lithography machines: that’s typically solely or at least collaboratively from ASML in the Netherlands. So if Apple really wanted to, they could move gradually away. And given their volumes, this is leverage.
Yep, right after they hire about 30,000 people long-term to manufacture the chips, and spend $20B on plants, which would take 5+ years to complete. It's almost as if TSMC asking or an extra 6% when inflation is at an all-time high is reasonable, and Apple doesn't really have a viable alternative...
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-i...
Being almost completely uninformed on the details of Apple/TSMC's dealings, I'm curious, would Apple ever position themselves to get into chip fabrication? I'm sure there are big reasons this is unlikely but it seems like if anyone could do it, it's Apple.
Honestly, I'm surprised they haven't started yet. If TSMC puts up too much of a fight, they might start internally considering how they would get into chip fabrication. They've already done everything else to great success (and to much surprise), so while the problem seems insurmountable, maybe Apple would be able to do what nobody else has been able to do in decades (aside from the Chinese with significant state inv…
Apple has more to lose here as they've bet their future on Apple Silicons currently only manufactured at TSMC. So it is interesting to see them still trying to arm-twist TSMC - would love to see their playbook as this is something they are known to do with all their suppliers.
AFAIK TSMC is operating Apple’s machines. If they want, and the contract allows, they can ship the machines somewhere else, and operate them there themselves or with another partner. It’s not like TSMC builds the machines. They just operate them, and we all know what happens to the man in the middle.
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Considering Apple funds a lot of TSMC's R&D I dare say they have a lot of leverage if they really wanna push it.
It appears they both equally need each other. If TMSC rejects Apple, what is Apple going to do? Use Intel chips in iPhones?
Apple is probably weaker because it’s likely someone else can fund the newest node for TSMC, just might take more work.
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Considering Apple funds a lot of TSMC's R&D I dare say they have a lot of leverage if they really wanna push it.
But Apple needs TSMC. Not saying you’re wrong, but TSMC also has leverage. TSMC doesn’t want to price Apple out, but at the same time, Apple can’t just pack up and go to a competitor. At the nodes they’re working at, going to a competitor could require a complete relayout with new design rules.
Apple could with some pain replace TSMC but TSMC can't really replace Apple. While Apple is a demanding partner they pay their bills on time and can and do front R&D money. Once Apple's deliveries are made TSMC now has a money printer on the new process node Apple paid for.