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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#201

Post by Aeolun »

TrackerFF wrote: post #195
qwerty456127 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one even cheat in chess? When I was a kid we used to distract the opponent and move some figures as he didn't watch. Apparently this is not the case but I can hardly imagine another way.

One method I can think of immediately (when playing face-to-face in the same room) You carry some device which lets you input data, computes the best move, and actuates that response back to you. Let's say that this device is simply a very small microcontroller which takes in input via some pressure sensor, and outputs via some actuator that creates vibration. You've loaded some chess program onto that microcontrolle…

Someone built this and posted it on HN a while ago.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#202

Post by handsclean »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #18
tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. What we have is the world champion throwing a tantrum because he lost against a player there is absolutely no evidence has cheated against him and is now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. This is harassment pure and simple. The whole thing is disgraceful and reflects extremely badly on competitive ch…

That doesn’t match with Carlsen’s past behavior (he’s been consistently graceful in defeat over many years), isn’t what Carlsen did (he refused to play again, he didn’t even directly accuse him of cheating let alone call for his expulsion or harass him), and there isn’t no evidence (just weak evidence).

Just consider, for a moment, the possibility that the kid did cheat again. What could Carlsen have possibly done that you wouldn’t call a tantrum? What he did was the most polite, least confrontational, thing possible.

We don’t currently have sufficient evidence that he cheated, but don’t confuse uncertainty for evidence towards either side.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#203

Post by dane-pgp »

Aeolun wrote: post #196
Arnavion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it turns out Niemann cheated, the way Carlsen is acting coy about it puts me off. The tweet was bad enough (unlike Mourinho he's clearly not in "big trouble" from his insinuation), but this resignation is such a publicity stunt.

The resignation I can live with. The tweet is just attention seeking.

What would you have done if you were in Carlsen's position and you suspected someone (not necessarily Niemann) had acted maliciously (but you didn't want to get sued for defamation or breach of contract)?

It's easy to say "Just don't tweet anything", and that's advice that we might wish millions of other people would follow too, but Carlsen is now getting criticism for his silence, so it seems like he can't win either way (ironically).

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#204

Post by rasz »

H8crilA wrote: post #103
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

>Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?

why would you need proof when Niemann already admitted to cheating in the past?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#205

Post by jackmott »

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

No post body was provided.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#206

Post by jackmott »

pfortuny wrote: post #162
H8crilA wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

The "if I talk I am in big problem" video is exactly the most he can say without forcing him to go to an unwinnable (because the burden of the proof is on him and it is practically impossible) trial. What can he do if he is completely convinced of the other player cheating. He can only let the other player win and at the same time make clear that he is not going to play against him . That is the only legal and honest…

No post body was provided.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#207

Post by ithkuil »

pfortuny wrote: post #164
systemvoltage wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobel prize or not, evidence is needed. Nobel prize is sort of orthogonal to the situation where many other Nobel prize winners also have reservations about the accusation including Gary Kasparov and Fabiano Caruana. Magnus can’t play God, sorry. Eh, let’s call Caruana Fields medalist :-).

Evidence of what ? Has Carlssen explicitly said "This guy has cheated?" He has only said "I cannot speak because I would be in such a big trouble that I am not willing to do so". It is not so trivial as "prove it" when you only have a deep, serious, professional conviction.

Just curious if there is any other plausible motivation other than cheating. Some personal issue? Blackmail?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#208

Post by Semaphor »

willsmith72 wrote: post #177
Keyframe wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12, 16, and 19 are worlds apart.

16 and 19 aren't, and who's to say there's a 3 year gap there?

I’d say 16 and 19 are further apart than 30 and 40 (said as a 36-year-old).

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#209

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

rasz wrote: post #204
H8crilA wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

>Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? why would you need proof when Niemann already admitted to cheating in the past?

Because whatever a person did as a child playing online on a second-rate chess site is hardly relevant for a top-level over the board tournament with strict anti-cheating measures.

It is simply immoral to deny any kind of redemption to any person who has ever made a mistake. For a person so ready to cast stones, are you yourself without any sin? Should the errors you once made follow you for the rest of your life?

I'd say people should put up some evidence of Niemann's cheating, how exactly he was receiving information on best possible moves, or just shut up about it. Or dial the anti-cheating measures to eleven, strip the players naked, put them in a Faraday-cage without spectators and cameras, and see how they do.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#210

Post by lvl102 »

H8crilA wrote: post #103
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

Burden of proof is on the accuser? That only applies in legal sense. Fortunately, we don’t live in a world bound by lawyers.
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