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After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

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Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#201
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> point the MX record to whatever hosting provider you want You can even have a hybrid solution where incoming mail goes directly to your self-hosted server and (some) outgoing mail is relayed through a third party.

What would be the advantage?

There are many benefits to running your own server. The three biggies for me are:

1. Control. A third party can change anything about the service any time they want, and if you don't like the change they made you're screwed.

2. Expectation of privacy. Because I am not contracting with a third party, the government cannot argue that I have waived my right to privacy. (As a practical matter of course this matters not at all. If the government -- or anyone with the right technical skill and access -- wants to read your email they will. But if push ever comes to shove in a court of law it could matter.)

3. Spam filtering. I think the whole industry is doing it wrong. The Right Way to filter spam is to use your outgoing mail as ground truth for what is not spam. I have a custom spam filter that I wrote based on this idea and it works like a charm. No Bayesian analysis needed. I don't even look at content at all. Just the headers are enough to achieve >99% accuracy.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#202
I am still hosting my emails via docker mailserver[1] I got some trouble with outlook.com bans, but Linode helped me to switch to a “good” ip address and it is working fine for now.

I will try ti resist as much as possible, because email is your primary identity “link” on the Internet, and you deserves to own it if you want.

[1]: https://gioorgi.com/2020/mail-server-on-docker/

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#203

It was a huge mistake for email receivers to take on the cost of filtering spam. Of course given the evolution of the internet and email it is easy to see how that mistake happened. Nobody had a crystal ball. But the only solution here is to raise the cost of sending email to the point where spam is no longer profitable. It seems like one solution is to bcrypt hash (or some similarly expensive algorithm) the email an…

This indeed looks like a good direction. A decade ago Freenet (not sure if it still exists?) had a problem with spam on its equivalent of USENET. It was pretty bad, until they changed the protocol so that it's the sending node that keeps the message, which is then pulled (or not) by the recipients. It made a lot of sense to me: I'm the one sending you the message, I want you to see it, while you don't even know whether you want to get that message. So it's me that should pay for storage and propagation of the message in terms of bandwidth and disk space. Not sure how it turned out in the end, but the approach seems right to me. It's like phone calls: it's the caller that pays the cost, not the one receiving the call.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#204
post #2

All that "security" just to fight spam. IIRC it was estimated that globally spammers make $300M per year from their spam. It doesn't seem like much. Somebody joked that it would be better if we just paid them that much to do nothing.

I wonder what the underlying problem is. Gabe Newell once said that "Piracy is not a pricing issue. It's a service issue". I believe this has been proven by netflix/spotify as well. Is spam just a symptom of a much deeper problem? If so what is it? Or is it naive to think of spam this way?

Spam is just the opposite, it is actually a pricing issue and not a service issue.

As long as the expected value per message of spam sent is positive, someone in the world will send as many messages as they are able to. You either fix this by raising their costs so that spam no longer has a positive expected value, remove their ability to send an unlimited number of messages, or both.

This is not exclusive to the e-mail system, robocalls are still a major annoyance, and the global telephone system is much more regulated. Mobile phones now automatically filter calls, even! It's wild.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#205
I have self-hosted my personal email account for years without issues. At some point early on I started relying on AWS for sending emails, but that can be easily switched out or removed at any time (and its free for my small volumes of sent emails).

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a happy medium. Host your own MX servers but use someone else's SMTP servers. You have complete control over the incoming mail but dodge the filters by using the established business for sending mail.

Adding to the happy medium is to teach your friends and family to use Thunderbird so they can easily GPG encrypt [1] their emails keeping the nosey email providers off the email body. Also teach them to use the IMAPS (TLS) endpoint for their mail provider, usually port 993. There are probably simpler how-to's with pictures, I just do not have any of them handy. [1] - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thund…

[deleted]

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#207
post #21

The sweet spot for having control over your email while simultaneously minimizing unforseen headaches is to simply own your domain name and point the MX record to whatever hosting provider you want instead of self-hosting a server at home. Same philosophy for exposing a your personal blog of html files or content like mp4 videos. The sweet spot is to focus on buying a domain name you control. Then let Amazon S3, or C…

There is also a happy medium. Host your own MX servers but use someone else's SMTP servers. You have complete control over the incoming mail but dodge the filters by using the established business for sending mail.

> Host your own MX servers but use someone else's SMTP servers.

Yes. My outgoing email goes out via Sonic's SMTP server, with the SPF records to allow it to have a source address of my own domain. Incoming email goes to my own domains and gets forwarded.

This seems to be trouble-free. The domain is on a cheap shared hosting account. I'm not running a server. I own the domain, and not though the hosting company, so I can switch to another provider if necessary. In 27 years, I've had to do that twice, because the hosting provider went out of business.

This is easy to do, and I don't have to deal with Google. I don't even get much spam. All the spammers seem to be targeting the big services now.

I just looked at my spam folder. I'm regularly being offered dental supplies, large hydraulic sheet metal bending presses, and ammonium sulfate fertilizer. It seems that having your own domain now means you get mostly business-to-business spam. I subscribe to Machine Design, which gets me some heavy industrial marketing, but I have no idea why I get dental supply ads. The fertilizer spams, from China, look like a scam - there's a fertilizer shortage, so that's a spam which might get replies.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#208

It was a huge mistake for email receivers to take on the cost of filtering spam. Of course given the evolution of the internet and email it is easy to see how that mistake happened. Nobody had a crystal ball. But the only solution here is to raise the cost of sending email to the point where spam is no longer profitable. It seems like one solution is to bcrypt hash (or some similarly expensive algorithm) the email an…

yeah, I believe it is called "HashCash" and works similarly to "proof of work" in cryptocurrencies

Right, I can´t believe people are re-discovering HashCash. It was a brilliant idea way ahead of its time. Sadly it was not adopted for email.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#209
After 19+ years of hosting my own email - It's worth it!

Imagine someone revokes your access or deletes all your emails because of an error, at the scale of gmail or outlook.com it just happens.

For spam there is one solution:

- implement greylisting. It just solves the problem.

Re: After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel

#210
post #71

I'm on 12 years of self hosting email and counting. Once every so often, I do end up being blocked, usually by Outlook and once by Yahoo. I'm in their 'sender program' and they still don't actually bother to contact postmaster@, but a few emails is usually enough to unblock the block within 24h. Agree with a sibling comment that many major providers fail to operate the SPF/DKIM/DMARC tools they insist you do. Each to…

I've also been self-hosting email for years, and the only deliverability problem I've ever had has been with AT&T. If I try to send something to an AT&T customer, I get an automated "your message has been eaten" notice, and following its directions accomplishes precisely nothing. At this point, I can only guess they're hellbanning the IP block in which my VPS resides, because it does not show up on any public DNSBLs.…

At least you get notified. Microsoft/Outlook on the other hand silently drops emails leaving you and the recipient in the dark.
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