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In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

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Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#201

Post by bradgessler »

bsder wrote: post #181
sroussey wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Irvine, California, homes are plumbed with two water lines: potable, and greywater. So even in the middle of a drought, everything is green.

For those unfamilar with the California scene: there is an agricultural water shortage, not a residential one. You could reduce residential usage of water in California to zero and it would barely make a dent in the water shortage. California can relatively easily desalinate its way out of residential water shortage. On the other hand, shutting down the agribusinesses in the Central Valley completely fixes California…

It sounds easy to say “shut down agribusiness,” but then you have a food problem.

I don’t know to what extent, but I can’t take “cut off ag” solutions seriously unless they can articulate the impact of the cut-off on food supplies and present alternatives for more efficient crops.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#202

Post by userbinator »

bradleyjg wrote: post #170
coliveira wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to be forced by the city to maintain a green lawn. That's why I came to believe this.

There’s a authoritarian law you don’t like, so you hope to seize power and pass the opposite authoritarian law. How about trying for a truce instead?

American politics in a nutshell.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#203

Post by seanmcdirmid »

birken wrote: post #200
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just absolutely restrict 240V during peak times then.

From the perspective of your electrical meter, there is no difference between running 2 120V appliances on separate busses vs running a single 240V appliance assuming they consume the same overall wattage. So this would be a very difficult thing to enforce.

That’s what a meter with more intelligence is used (and ya, it would need tighter coupling with the panel where 240V circuits are formed).

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#204

Post by bsder »

bradgessler wrote: post #201
bsder wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unfamilar with the California scene: there is an agricultural water shortage, not a residential one. You could reduce residential usage of water in California to zero and it would barely make a dent in the water shortage. California can relatively easily desalinate its way out of residential water shortage. On the other hand, shutting down the agribusinesses in the Central Valley completely fixes California…

It sounds easy to say “shut down agribusiness,” but then you have a food problem. I don’t know to what extent, but I can’t take “cut off ag” solutions seriously unless they can articulate the impact of the cut-off on food supplies and present alternatives for more efficient crops.

Cutting off alfalfa being exported won't hurt "food supplies" in the US one bit. Almonds, similarly, are hardly necessary for maintaining our "food supply". There are other, more staple, crops that use a lot less water but the agribusinesses choose not to grow them because they don't make as much profit.

One of the perennial problems in California is that the agribusinesses don't pay anywhere close to what they should for water. This creates gigantic misincentives to suck up the water and leave somebody else holding the bag. If the water rates were higher, the agribusinesses would grow a very different mix of crops. Of course, since the agribusinesses also throw around lots of money, politicians won't touch the issue.

The coastal cities finally decided that they need to build enough desalinization plants to cover their needs so they can simply ignore the ongoing Central Valley fiasco.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#205

Post by hansvm »

alistairSH wrote: post #193
echelon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to waste land and water resources like that is a typical signal of wealth. The people with lawns that I know and grew up knowing didn't take care of them to "signal wealth". Many would never care to own a luxury car or Rolex. Rather, they enjoyed gardening, the aesthetics, and having their kids play in the lawn. They barbequed every weekend and enjoyed time outdoors at home. > Those lawns are usually gro…

There are other green ground covers than grass that require less water, less chemical treatment, etc. It wasn’t until the 1960s or 70s and a big advertising push from Scott’s Lawn and similar companies that the all-grass, perfectly manicured lawn became a thing in middle-class America. Prior to that, mixed grass+clover+weed lawns were the norm. The fact that people continue to grow grass lawns in places like Arizona…

> No idea what anybody would do anything different, except for not knowing any better

Or because clover handles hot climates poorly and is prone to leaving splotchy dead areas, because turf is better able to handle the abuse of yard sports, .... Nothing against most of what you're saying, I just want to highlight that however complicated we think the world is, it's almost certainly more than expected.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#206

Post by therealdrag0 »

bushbaba wrote: post #44
scifibestfi wrote: post #14

Does anyone else feel like all of our institutions are crumbling in real time? And to the degree they still work is a product of momentum?

It’s a shift in money and resources. The US is a collection of states. As some states grow others shrink. There’s brain drains from some states to other states. What we are seeing is shifting tides of a large country that makes it easy to move from coast to coast

Maybe remote work will reduce the brain drain. Many folks leaving coastal cities.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#207

Post by cs702 »

makomk wrote: post #151
cs702 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mississippi's GDP per capita is roughly between Spain's and Portugal's, so by global standards, the state is actually quite wealthy -- definitely wealthy enough to ensure everyone has drinking water in all its cities.

Spain has a fairly substantial shantytown outside Madrid. There are also urban areas there (including, I think, some fairly touristy ones) which just discharge all their raw untreated sewage into the rivers and sea because somehow none of the governments have managed to build sewage treatment for them, so I do wonder about the quality of their drinking water. In general, there seems to be more regional inequality and…

Yes. There are more than a few shantytowns throughout Spain, but keep in mind that they tend to be inhabited by Gitanos (often called Gypsies or Romani in English) who haven't yet fully integrated into mainstream Spanish society. Gitanos are in fact systematically marginalized by governmental and other institutions in Spain.[a] And also, yes, there's quite a bit of dysfunction and corruption in Spain -- more than in its fellow EU members to the North.

That said, I have a hard time imagining Spanish politicians ever neglecting infrastructure in a major city (let alone the largest one, the capital, Madrid) to the point that the city's entire population finds itself without access to drinking water.

[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitanos#Marginalisation

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#208

Post by hosh »

Scoundreller wrote: post #199
hosh wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shipped food are bred for monocropping and transport. Tomatoes in grocery stores, for example, are chosen for its uniform shape and ability to be stored and transported. They are not bread for taste or nutritional value. That is also leaving aside having to depend on the global supply chain and cheap transport for food. Which is more costly and fragile than developing local food sources and food sovereignty.

Still depends on the food. Even local tomatoes and other “fresh” crops will be the same mono-cropping garbage unless you hunt down niche stuff at a farmer’s market (or in my case, grow your own!)

Yes, the most local food are the ones that are grown at home. When you add seed-saving, there is an opportunity to breed landraces specific to your environment, taste, and nutritional density.

No transport on refrigerated trucks needed. Onsite compost complements the whole setup. Then you add greywater for the perennial food forest.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#209

Post by njarboe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #203
birken wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of your electrical meter, there is no difference between running 2 120V appliances on separate busses vs running a single 240V appliance assuming they consume the same overall wattage. So this would be a very difficult thing to enforce.

That’s what a meter with more intelligence is used (and ya, it would need tighter coupling with the panel where 240V circuits are formed).

240V are what run electric stoves. I guess no cooking either. Why don't we just have a functioning grid like civilized society?
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