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The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

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Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#201

Post by motohagiography »

danans wrote: post #120
motohagiography wrote: post #29

Some Canadian cities responded to this with a foreign buyers tax, notably in Vancouver. Florida has a method for balancing its "snowbird" population to do with foreign buyers. Personally, I think this is the effect of governments themselves no longer believing in nations and borders or a responsibility for them, and simply importing polarized populations of both very rich and very poor people whose effect in concert…

> Personally, I think this is the effect of governments themselves no longer believing in nations and borders or a responsibility for them, and simply importing polarized populations of both very rich and very poor people > It's barely right/left at all, it's just nihilistic power as its own end. These statements are skillfully leaving out "ethno" part of nationalism. Once you add that quite obviously real and active…

The "ethno-" in nationalism isn't silent or implied though. Canada has been a very heterogeneous nation for over a century, Israel is also very heterogeneous where people are bound by religion and not ethnicity, France and Spain have a huge and integrated north african populations and they are French and Spanish, full stop. Brazil, also a nation with as much global diversity as is available. This trope that nations as entities are somehow racist is more an artifact of the critical theory that calls everything racist by default, and not of how people actually live together.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#202

Post by lovich »

rootos wrote: post #177
notch656a wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undocumented immigrants tend to be an overall good for the citizen economy since we can exploit them, charge them sales tax etc, and then not offer them public services in return. Hopefully the cheap construction labor will improve the housing situation in the US.

Undocumented immigrants have the same access to public services such as public education, medical care at hospitals, access to court systems, police, fire, etc.

Undocumented immigrants have access to the court system and police that will arrest them the moment they are found to be undocumented? Even if they ostensibly could use it they would avoid taking the risk

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#203

Post by asdff »

Why is the situation always "lets attempt to tax investors who are notorious for skirting around their full tax burden" instead of directly attacking the conditions that lead to this area being a favorable area to park money in the first place? Namely, you have too many jobs and not enough housing.

Sometime in the last 100 years, leaders around the western world realized the massive real estate opportunity of strangling natural urban growth and price gouging on the limited supply they artificially created through euclidean zoning and countless layers of regulatory process meant to disincentivize investment in development. Just build more housing, and a lot of the economic ills of the 2020s around the world will evaporate.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#204

Post by immibis »

asdff wrote: post #203

Why is the situation always "lets attempt to tax investors who are notorious for skirting around their full tax burden" instead of directly attacking the conditions that lead to this area being a favorable area to park money in the first place? Namely, you have too many jobs and not enough housing. Sometime in the last 100 years, leaders around the western world realized the massive real estate opportunity of strangl…

Nobody wins elections by promising to destroy jobs.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#205

Post by iostream25 »

andrepd wrote: post #104
somewhereoutth wrote: post #87

5 years resident here (as a Brexit refugee). Central city locations in Lisbon and Porto have exploded in price, but this is due to AirBnB rather than rich expats. Portugal's tourism industry has boomed, which has put money in a lot of people's pockets, but has distorted local economies somewhat. Better management is required, for example cracking down on AirBnB and NOT building that new cruise liner terminal. Unfortu…

(Calling yourself a "refugee" as a rich immigrant is a bit off-puting, imho) Why do you say that the rise in housing prices has been due to AirBnB but not to rich immigrants? It seems a bit odd. Both can outbid the average native and just push prices high. Many rich immigrants also buy up loads of property for speculative/investment purposes, not just to live in. >has a large amount of cultural baggage from quite fra…

not the op. agree that op is not refugee fleeing war on inflatable boat.

I distilled "lack of agency" as: not rewarding initiative, people afraid to take initiative. the portuguese boss does not like the employee to take initiative, and the employee will not do so. copying existing British designs is "safer" socially speaking, than making new designs.

source: I'm portuguese, I'm a weirdo and people always try to conform me to a box.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#206

Post by immibis »

squarefoot wrote: post #122

> flats with just two bedrooms going for more than half a million euros in the centers of Lisbon or Oporto. How is that different from other places? Houses in the center of big cities are always a lot more expensive than others far away from it. Want a small one in the center of Rome? Here you are: 27mq, 2nd floor and no elevator, no heating, no air conditioning, abysmal energy efficiency, no kitchen, renovation need…

It's not different. Nobody can afford to live anywhere. Which (when homelessness is illegal) means nobody can afford to live. Market-enforced eugenics, if you will, selecting for generational wealth rather than specific genetic markers.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#207

Post by slaw »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #139
slaw wrote: post #75

Inflation in Portugal is 9%, Euribor interest rate used to calculate mortgage is 1.483%. Housing is where you park money.

what a smart and filled with empathy comment for an article about people being pushed out of their hometowns.

I am only stating facts not the one who is printing money and pushing people out of their hometowns.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#208

Post by hydrok9 »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #146
jersak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna lie, im considering moving from BC to a farm in NS. With the mortgage i have on a 2 bdr apartment in the lower mainland i can buy up to 3 farms in NS, which is comically sad.

Side fact, not really criticism: When I see abbreviations for US states, my brain starts inserting anything that comes to mind and is a location. In this case: "BC? British Columbia? NS? New Jersey, no that's not with an 's' ... Arg, no idea!" It is not mandatory for me to understand all the abbreviations. Just that sometimes I would like to understand more, without having to guess states.

but, BC and NS are of course Canadian provinces, not US states ;)

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#209

Post by immibis »

fbanon wrote: post #54

Step 1: nearly bankrupt your country Step 2: sell out your country to wealthy foreigners to "stimulate the economy" Step 3: act surprised that you can't afford living in your country, that got sold out to wealthy foreigners

Step 4: say "oops, we can't afford to pay you the stuff we promised, but you should have known that, because you are smart investors and you checked our balance sheet and houseflow first" and then default on the investments. I wonder why these places are so desperate not to do that.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#210

Post by immibis »

_vbnz wrote: post #193

Europe is facing complete economic collapse in the face of hyper-inflation, energy shortages, the Euro collapsing in value and rising interest rates. It's a shame that the continent that was once the birthplace of democracy, the scientific method, the industrial revolution and socialism has been reduced to nothing more than an open-air museum for wealthy Americans and a refugee centre for the victims of their wars. W…

Last time Europe had "strong leaders who will put first" it did NOT end well.
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