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D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

washingtonian.com

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Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#201

Post by ZeroGravitas »

derefr wrote: post #123
DubiousPusher wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human civilization survived open sewers, massive public latrines and unseperated water supply and waste. Not something I'd like to go back to by any means. But with modern knowledge and technology, and call me crazy if you like, I believe we can sanitize a few dozen poop disasters a day without bringing on a typhoid plague or breaking the bank.

The more commonplace and universal something is, the less of a big deal people will feel it is to deal with. And vice versa. The very fact that we don’t all live in filth now, means that you have to pay a high premium to get someone to choose to be the person whose job constantly exposes them to it. See also: the profitability of electronics recycling (i.e. picking through piles of scrap for base metal to melt) in th…

Recycling of waste electronics is profitable.

The only thing stopping it in first world countries is an aversion of democratic oversight of corporations.

https://www.rts.com/blog/what-is-urban-mining/

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#202

Post by Overtonwindow »

Some strange privacy quirks aside, I really hope this is a great success. The United States needs public restrooms. However that has to be accomplished, it is becoming a vital need. I was flabbergasted in Germany when I could go to a public restroom for the equivalent of a quarter. Clean, plenty of toilet paper, safe, brilliant. In Paris they have small buildings where you go in and close the door and for a quarter you get 15 minutes.

It’s like trash, give people a trashcan and they will use it. Provide public restrooms and people will use them instead of letting it go on the street

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#203

Post by Overtonwindow »

deltasevennine wrote: post #94
slumpt_ wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such is the consequence of a housing crisis and the downstream homelessness, despair, and of course mental illness. Don't give someone a roof and a toilet and they may just find any old place to go!

Nah even the dog walkers here don't give a shit. The dogs piss and shit all over the entire city and the rich SF owners don't care.

Remember when that guy took a shit in Nancy Pelosi‘s driveway? That got noticed real quick

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#204

Post by Overtonwindow »

markdestouches wrote: post #179

You buy a card with a unique id that grants access to any public bathroom cabin. Anyone with such card can report a cabin if it's a mess. If it is - the previous visitor's card gets banned. You also get banned for false reports. The maintainers of the bathroom verify the reports. The card needs to be expensive enough to not be disposable, but also cheap enough so that all social classes can afford it. Problem solved…

Perhaps the cards can be given out through social services

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#205

Post by tomjen3 »

teddyh wrote: post #175
tomjen3 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, and it is important to remember that all it takes is very few people to ruin it for everybody. With accountability comes consequences and that fixes the incentive function. However I also think the system requires something kinda like forgiveness, or maybe better yet, redemption. If, once you have been kicked out there is nothing you can do to be let back in then nothing incentivises you…

This is actually a reasonable counter-argument, were it not for the fact that practically every such systems, no matter how lofty their goals or how fair their initial rules, all eventually evolve to be instead a tool for oppression.

It is a tool of oppression right from the beginning, and its goal is to oppress certain behaviours so we can have a functional society.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#206

Post by teddyh »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #7
teddyh wrote: post #3

> User IDs are part of Throne’s accountability system: After you use a restroom, you’re asked to rate its cleanliness. Meanwhile, each user gets a “Throne score,” similar to Uber, and repeat offenders who abuse the restroom will be blocked. Weight sensors also track if someone’s been in the bathroom too long. “Very few people create issues in [public] bathrooms, don’t respect that amenity, and then ruin it for the ma…

Seriously though, accountability is the missing thing. If getting banned for consistently making a mess is what it takes to get public bathrooms back, then so be it. There's no excuse for the shit I've seen. I'm tired of being denied amenities because of other peoples' degenerate behaviour.

No man is an island, entirely of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod is washed away by the sea, Europe is the lesser, as well as if a promontorie were, as well as if a manor of your friends or of your own were; any person’s ban diminishes me, because I am involved in the community; And therefore never ask to know onto who the banhammer falls; it falls on you.

(With apologies to John Donne)

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#207

Post by deltasevennine »

teddyh wrote: post #173
deltasevennine wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. Some people are influenced by propaganda and the historical connotations associated with the word "dictatorship." There's nothing inherently bad about the word, it's just the association. If you look at dictatorships objectively there are many successful examples. Here are a few modern ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_di…

> So I say give gatekeeping a try. It’s been tried. Many times. Throughout human history. It is littered with stratified societies, where every man had his lessers and betters to kick and cower before, respectively. This did not lead to any good outcomes. I say let equality and mutual respect have a chance.

Uh yeah, and it's been tried with huge success as well. Huge huge success. Such one sided reasoning has no merit and is intellectually dishonest.

I'm saying try it with restrooms. Because this hasn't been tried yet at all.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#208

Post by deltasevennine »

jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #183
atoav wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what living in a society where winning more than the next person is the only thing that counts will give you. Why should anybody fulfill their part of the unspoken contract with the rest of society, if solidarity only goes one way? If people shall care about collective goods, there needs to be an actual collective spirit first. Places where this type of public infrastructure actually works are also places whe…

Every company I have worked for has a certain number of people that are not capable, or willing, to leave the sanitary facilities in an acceptable state. From people actively soiling the facilities, to people not giving a fuck about leaving a mess (making a 'seat cover' out of tp, then leaving it on the floor; not cleaning after themselfes), to people with a 'not my job' egocentrical attitude. Those are studied engin…

Japan is a strange counterexample. Not sure how they do it without identification.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#209

Post by deltasevennine »

atoav wrote: post #128
deltasevennine wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah even the dog walkers here don't give a shit. The dogs piss and shit all over the entire city and the rich SF owners don't care.

This is what living in a society where winning more than the next person is the only thing that counts will give you. Why should anybody fulfill their part of the unspoken contract with the rest of society, if solidarity only goes one way? If people shall care about collective goods, there needs to be an actual collective spirit first. Places where this type of public infrastructure actually works are also places whe…

You're wrong about homeless people in SF. There's a huge liberal movement here.

Homeless people are coddled and taken care of. Free syringes so they don't get HIV. Homeless people aren't beaten. If you're homeless SF is paradise.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#210

Post by bart_spoon »

Dalewyn wrote: post #102
ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? PSAs? Public shaming? Collateral put down to use bathrooms? Do you have any better and specific ideas? I can't think of much more gentle and more likely to motivate people to change behavior than a public accountability system, although it is regrettable that it must be run through a for-profit entity and look like a social cre…

>What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? 300% public shaming. Japan is an example of this working, to an unbelievably ideal extent even. Public restrooms in Japan are *clean*, they are spotless and sanitary no matter what time of day you visit one. You can probably eat off of those toilet seats, for all I know. The reason for this is because individuals who do not cl…

The thing is, I think you have the causality wrong. I lived in Japan and I can’t remember anyone being shamed for anything. I think individuals feel shame if they break societal norms because they value cohesion over individualism. They don’t value cohesion over individualism because they will be shamed if they step out of line. That’s a key difference, because there are many people these days who are, for various reasons, effectively beyond shame. Simply attempting to shame people for their actions won’t improve outcomes because the same people causing the issue likely don’t care enough to feel shame.

Ultimately the difference is that American society is one in which individualism is prized over all. The greatest evils are those that would in any way infringe on something that could be considered a personal liberty. And it’s only gotten worse in the last 50 years. I can’t imagine modern American society rising to meet any major challenge of the last 100 years the way we have in the past.

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