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Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks like several commenters have been able to reproduce the problem, so in that sense I guess it's substantiated? If people were trying to reproduce it and failing, I agree with you that would be a different story.
The allegation is the root cause, not the problem itself.
I guess if it's not explicitly censored then its just a bug that Microsoft can fix.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why did you suggest THIS as an example of what hes talking about? He seems to be pooh-poohing the entire idea of "eliminating bias" in AI. So I felt it was important to * point out that there are clear cases of bias in AI no matter where you stand on gender * move on to explain a closely related case (using historical speech about race could be offensive) * use the lesson to show that using historical speech about…
I don't think your example is indicative of what he opposed. If you can't effectively train something from existing data then cherry picking results according to different values isnt going to fix it. Your example has quietly shifted from facial recognition of different races to speech about different races. I cant even be sure of what you're talking about other than the fact that you will oppose criticism of imparti…
Again: "merely a refusal to return results in an area where the model has proven problematic."
> Your example has quietly shifted from facial recognition of different races to speech about different races.
Again, three points:
* First, no matter how you feel about gender: bias in AI is a problem, as evidenced by issues with recognizing black faces.
* Second, there's some obvious cases where we can all agree that using past training data could result in things that are currently offensive. There are pieces of language we pretty much all agree we should use differently now to avoid offense (e.g. mongoloid).
* Third, I believe that gender is one of these cases. Social mores are evolving. Using conventions from the past when our collective norms are changing on the span of months basically guarantees offense.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, I don't think, e.g. being able to handle black faces correctly is some sort of massive ideological commitment. So let's not pretend that the entire concern of bias in AI is irrelevant, no matter where you stand on gender. > conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments You know-- let's just talk about basic respect and dignity: if someone strongly wants to…
> if someone strongly wants to be referred to in a particular way, the polite response is to respect their wishes Would you also respect the wishes of a schizophrenic person, if they say much the same thing? If they say that they are actually an alien from outer space, would you play along?
What was that bot that MSFT stood up on Twitter that trolls and memers fed to turn alt-right? I know they eventually took it down and that it stirred up a lot of controversy. I would not be surprised if someone found some Copilot output stemming from "gender" and reported to MSFT/GitHub for them to simply short circuit or "break" after finding certain keywords.
Yeah they probably found something like: assert gender in ["male", "female"]. If this is enough to trigger a backlash then maybe we deserve whatever fate has in store for us.
This thread needs a call to Rule 14: do not feed trolls. The bugs apparent trigger word is close to hot-button poli-sci issue. Can we please focus on the Technology.
Commenters making bad-faith arguments in this discussion are the reason we can’t have nice things.
That's silly. So can I put "gender" as the first line in my code to stop copilot from ingesting it altogether? Are there any other break-words? Master, slave, Carlin's seven words, etc?
An earlier version of the list that someone found (see https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=32339001 for links) does contain "gender", "slavery" and "master race" but not "master" and "slave" itself, ironically.
So I've just tested it, and I can confirm, yes, copilot refuses to give suggestions related to gender. Now I know a lot of people are calling this absurd, but looking more closely, there are two PR nightmare scenarios. 1. Copilot makes a suggestion that implies gender is binary, a certain community explodes with anger and an entire news hype cycle starts about how Microsoft is enforcing views on gender with code. 2.…
Those aren’t the only options. You can just let it suggest what it is going to suggest. Copilot is a product for adults who should be able to comprehend what machine learning is. Anybody who throws a fit about it will only be exposing themselves as a fool.
I hope to god that one day we will all see this nonsense for what it is: absurdly hilarious.
It's gonna come soon enough. The backlash is already mounting. I'm just honestly super exhausted by any of the insanity right now, not even only regarding this topic. It's just complete black-and-white thinking these days, no matter about what it is. Extremes only. The stronger your opinion the better, how else would you feel like you exist? Almost no one with a rational, centered overarching perspective. Twenty year…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, I don't think, e.g. being able to handle black faces correctly is some sort of massive ideological commitment. So let's not pretend that the entire concern of bias in AI is irrelevant, no matter where you stand on gender. > conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments You know-- let's just talk about basic respect and dignity: if someone strongly wants to…
> if someone strongly wants to be referred to in a particular way, the polite response is to respect their wishes Would you also respect the wishes of a schizophrenic person, if they say much the same thing? If they say that they are actually an alien from outer space, would you play along?