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The Global Cost of Corrosion

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201–210 of 251 posts

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#201
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And repair. Repairing always uses fewer resources than making new. While I personally and professionally select use repairable items in lieu of non-repairable ones, I believe that this is not entirely a personal issue. Another r-word to add should be regulation. Without some degree of enforcement, the present set of incentives will continue to worsen the situation.

That's only true if you don't count skilled labor as a "resource". Repairing badly corroded vehicles isn't economically viable because it takes so much work to cut and weld the corroded body and frame parts. So that kind of repair is only done for collector items. Regular cars just get junked and replaced.

recycling is an issue of material consumption and pollution - if you are optimising for time and convenience, single use plastic is the best thing ever.

And labour is expensove because rent is expensive. Countries with cheap rent have enough labour to repair things, countries with expensive rent are throwing away perfectly good dishwasher because 1 motor must be replaced and there is noone to do it.

I was just listening to an economic analyst bleating how a potential fall in house prices would be terrible. Noone is reflecting on the fact that housing shortage has done more economic damage than the Plague.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#203
post #6

This is why I get scared when I see articles about people developing plastic eating bacteria. Sure it is great for reducing waste but it’s a dangerous game to be playing for sure.

Those microbes require very specific conditions: precise pH and osmolarity, high temperature (50-70˚C), long contact times, feedstock that's been literally pulverized, etc. These probably aren't going to occur anywhere outside of a bioreactor, so our action figures are likely safe...for now!

F1 does, perhaps, but what about F2, F3, F10^7452?

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#204
post #76
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche 944s and 928s are far more rust resistant than most American or Japanese cars of the 80s or even 90s. Likewise with Volvos. The classic 911 was an old design that went through iterative improvements, and the 964 is better rust-proofed than most American or Japanese cars of the late 80s or 90s. Old Audis tend to have minimal rust, and old Mercedes-Benzes like the W126, W124, and W201, while they certainly can…

It is my impression that older Mercedes are pretty good in this department. I still see so many mid-80's Accords in the US. Yes, there's probably a somewhat smaller share of them that survived than mid-80's BMWs, but there's a lot of factors that go into survival (Honda == cheaper to keep going as a beater; BMW == higher initial value / treated nicer for the earlier parts of its lifespan).

You see so many mid 80s Accords in the US for the same reason you still see a lot of 90s Caddys despite them being objectively crap cars. The people who bought them could afford to keep them nice, not beat the shit out of them and maintain them as they needed it so they lasted. Your average 1990ish Accord commuter sedan lived a far, far, far easier life, at least for the first 10-15yr than your average Ford Taurus or Subaru Legacy family wagon and it shows in the number that are still around today.

This is the same reason you see a lot more Grand Marquis and Town Cars to (non-cop) Crown Vics today than you did back when they were still making all those things. I cite this example specifically to control for literally every variable except the owners.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

There's a huge export market though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_used_vehicle_export... I read that something like 60% of cars registered in NZ are Japanese imports. IMHO Japanese used car exports have a lot of the characteristics of "dumping" (in trade terms) but because there is no local vehicle manufacturing in most of the places they end up, nobody complains.

Dumping is when a country is subsidizing domestic production and selling a good internationally below cost. Japan isn't dumping because they don't subsidize the manufacturer. Instead they just have onerous regulations that make private parties sell their cars. They artificially stimulated local demand

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#207
post #87

I imagine a substantial part of this is the rusting of rebar in concrete structures. The problem of rebar has fascinated me, and one German company has begin making carbon fiber reinforced concrete instead of steel, with amazing results. You can reduce environmental waste by having structures last longer and you use less concrete. I'm looking forward to this becoming more ubiquitous. https://www.aboutcivil.org/carbon…

> carbon fiber reinforced concrete

Obligatory mention of Basalt rebar as well.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#208
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stainless steel is not 'rust proof' it is mostly rust retardant, it has a chromium coating that reduces oxidization but does not stop it completely. The more chromium, the better the rust resistant properties. https://www.pennstainless.com/resources/product-information/... Is pretty good stuff and https://www.cralloys.com/alloys/17-chrome/ is possibly better still. If you want (much) better rust resistance than that…

"Stainless steel is not 'rust proof' it is mostly rust retardant, it has a chromium coating that reduces oxidization but does not stop it completely." Just to be clear ... you can indeed coat things with stainless steel. However, most stainless steel objects (like screws or bolts or tools, etc.) are stainless throughout - you cannot abrade or scratch into a non-stainless inner core. This is unlike, for instance, galv…

Even stainless steel throughout objects can and do rust.

Here is a pretty good article on what goes on when the passivation layer is compromised:

https://www.alliagesunifies.com/blog/does-stainless-steel-ru...

So this isn't about 'objects coated with stainless steel' it is about objects made entirely from stainless steel. Have a look at what a typical all through stainless steel terminal on an ocean going ship looks like after a couple of years. Especially when they are made from lower grades of stainless (such as for instance 304) vs better ones. Not all stainless is made equal when it comes to corrosion resistance.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#209

Why aren't bridges and ships made out of stainless steel? Is it too expensive, or not as strong as regular steel?

For a plane you want to reduce weight as much as possible, and steel isn’t particularly lightweight.

A lot of commercial aircraft have switch to composite materials to reduce weight even further than would be possible with just metals, though that approach has its own drawbacks.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#210

I’ve spent years working on a VW bus restoration, and this is something I’ve thought about so much. Once you’ve had to clean up rust you begin to see it everywhere. It’s like having a disease. Anyways, yeah it would be fantastic if metal just didn’t corrode. That would be one of the greatest gifts to the world.

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