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Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

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Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#201

Post by tasty_freeze »

google234123 wrote: post #103
LazyMans wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? I'm just curious because I can't imagine living at 78F anymore.

78-80 doesn't feel to bad in a dry climate imo

I live in Austin, TX. It has been 105-ish every day this week, but the humidity is 30% during the hot part of the day. My office has a ceiling fan which is on low most of the time. Some people will not believe this, but I have the minisplit set at 80F and when the sun sets I turn off the fan because I start to get cold. When I leave my office (which is attached to the garage) and walk the 40 feet into my house through the 98F evening air I often feel: ah, that warmth feels good.

To summarize: it is one part adaptation to the heat, one part low humidity, and one part air circulation.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#202

Post by hnbear »

baxtr wrote: post #110
moralestapia wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry, not sorry: I'm not willing to sacrifice my comfort for the ~$10/mo incentive. Hey, but at least you don't use plastic straws, right?

Someone who works at a bar told me recently that they “discovered” long tubular pasta (forgot the exact name) to be the best organic straws. PS: You’re welcome.

Bucatini?

https://www.grubstreet.com/2020/12/2020-bucatini-shortage-in...

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#203

Post by kylebenzle »

rblatz wrote: post #107
ceejayoz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does work, though. Nest's program pre-cools to get you through the hottest hours without having to kick on the AC, moving some of the region's demand from the 4-6pm slot to the 2-4pm slot. I find myself going "huh, it's getting a little warm" at about 5:45pm, at which point I check and remember it's a "Rush Hour" session.

Does precooking really work? I’d assume it would have to cool my house down below 65 to keep it below 80 all afternoon. 111+ days are brutal in certain rooms even with both ACs set to 76.

No post body was provided.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#204

Post by evanreichard »

moralestapia wrote: post #188
saurik wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect someone who isn't willing to sacrifice their comfort for a $10/mo incentive to sacrifice their comfort for a $0/mo incentive? Deciding "I don't like this person's ethics" doesn't mean "this person is suddenly inconsistent": you need to check your knee-jerk responses :/.

It was a sarcastic remark to his/her selfish attitude towards sustainability. "Sorry, not sorry" multiplied by 1,000,000x and through the decades is what got us (all) in a climate emergency.

It certainly helped change my mind on the matter.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#205

Post by bluGill »

tguvot wrote: post #175
bluGill wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to tear mine out. It helps a little, but it leaks so much conditioned air when not in use i'm convinced it is a negative overall.

tear it out and put a new one. There are models from airscape that come with motorized dumper doors with insulation. When fan is off, it's sealed.

Thanks for that. I wasn't even aware that I had an option to get one that wasn't sending all my winter heat out.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#206

Post by oceanplexian »

asfsaf wrote: post #191
celticninja wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or you know, dont live in the desert e.g Phoenix Arizona, or if you do decide to live in the desert then realise that's your choice and dont add to pollution and climate change by trying to cool down a desert with AC.

Heating is far worse than cooling for energy consumption. It just doesn't produce the same moral outrage that AC does. Which is funny, because you can always and universally add an extra layer of clothes to keep warm. You literally don't need heating as long as you forgo internal plumbing. But there is no universal alternative to AC to cool something down and people die all the time from heat exhaustion at home.

I live in the desert and there are tons of alternatives to AC that have been used for thousands of years.you can build structures partially underground, you can use the evaporation of water to cool the air, you can use wind catchers like the ancient Persians did, you can wear different colored clothing (Triple digits is not uncomfortable if you’re wearing light colors), you can sleep during the day and work when it’s cooler, and so on.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#207

Post by mlsu »

mikepurvis wrote: post #56
bob1029 wrote: post #17

The power grid is a very complex thing, and I strongly believe that demand management is an important component for stability. There are ways we could better organize our HVAC fleets to provide near-equivalent levels of comfort. The current proposals really suck though. Storage is a big deal that seems to be the focal point of most of the renewable/non-renewable debate, but there are other concerns that are discussed…

I guess I don't know what's out there, but it feels like there must be a bunch of industrial-type loads that could be pretty flexible, and would absolutely benefit from a model where they get electricity for a fraction of the price with the promise that the utility can throttle them back by 80-90% at a second's notice. Think stuff that's naturally storage-oriented, like charging forklift/AGV batteries, pumping someth…

I think this already exists. I've read that aluminum smelters (very very energy intensive) get a discount rate that you describe. I think all very large scale industrial projects interact pretty extensively with the power provider to make sure that both parties know how the impact to the grid can be managed.

I can't imagine that a 50MW industrial operation just pays their power bill the way you and I do.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#208

Post by smileysteve »

pfdietz wrote: post #27
ceejayoz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My utility can (with an opt-in on my part) tell my Nest to go into power-saving mode on a high demand day. https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9244031

This is reactive; a better scheme is proactive: on a day when the A/C demand is likely to be high, precool the house during off hours to 60 F and then turn off the A/C. Simply exposing homeowners to real time pricing would be useful, even if nothing is done automatically with that information.

Ecobee has time of use (limit use during higher rate time) and community savings (allow utility to adjust you up to 78)

On the basic levels it allows extra sensors to choose central fan use instead of ac, and proximity sensors to not turn on when your away (also a cell phone integration) in addition to scheduling.

It also has humidity based comfort (where it will adjust the set point higher if the system has been able to get to a low humidity). More advanced you can configure how much the ac will overcool for the humidity, or overcool before the time of use.

Even more advanced, you can configure your staging, responsiveness, and desired runtimes (though keeping this on auto is better)

There is even a project, beestat.io that compares your settings versus houses similar to yours in terms of runtime and insulation factor. (And recommends against an extremely responsive system)

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#209

Post by nerdbaggy »

taylodl wrote: post #71

I really don't like the strategy of super cooling in the morning. I prefer fresh air instead. I throw the windows open wide and let all the cool morning air in. By midmorning I'm usually starting to close those windows because the outside air is getting warmer. By mid afternoon I'm closing all those windows and turning on the AC and setting the temperature to 1 degree (Fahrenheit) cooler than the current room tempera…

I have a fresh air intake on my HVAC and I do something similar in the morning. Windows provide much more fresh air throughput though

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#210

Post by smileysteve »

hyperpape wrote: post #7
labrador wrote: post #2

It's a well known problem, so I'm surprised no one thought about it ahead of time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

It does seem like there are a few details that are different, because the thermostats will put sustained load on the grid, whereas the TV pickup will not. That means that a couple of nice technical solutions like adding jitter to the startup times would solve the pickup problem, but not the increased load at 6:00 AM.

There's going to be jitter based on your building "resist" insulation in addition to clock jitter. (Esp for non Internet connected)

And your hvac sizing and plumbing efficiency determines the jitter too, where there is typically a minimum compressor on and off time of 300s, but the runtime is determined by how quickly it can get to the setpoint.

Ecobees whave automatic "staging" configuration, but can be set manually to have have more or less setpoint responsiveness and over cool Max by .5 degree increments

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