New California law requires high schools to start later • Hacker News Board

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#201

Post by xkbarkar » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:03 PM UTC

Amazing how this irritates many. We never had classes before 8.30 ( not US ) when I was a kid. School starting at 7 would have caused an outrage. Parents were generally starting work between 8-9 so dropping of the kid on the way to work makes sense. At 7 most parents would have been an hour early for work which is not awesome for everyone.

How bizarre to read that an entire culture apparently has promoted extraordinary lazy kids for 5 or so decades, because their standard school starting time differs from the US one.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#202

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

Shouldn't this be a local issue?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#203

Post by skyyler » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #42

giantg2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is for high school. But not all high schoolers are responsible enough, so still a point. Also, the majority of people have to be at work at 8am or earlier.

Who has to be at work nowadays, other than people who tend to work in jobs which mean shift patterns. Sometimes I have to start work at 4am, does that mean that schools should start at 3am to make it convenient for me? What about when I finish at 11pm? What if I'm working overnight?

>Who has to be at work nowadays

Nearly all workers that perform non-mental labour.

You should really consider talking to some less privileged people sometime.

Most of the world's workers aren't white collar, are they?

Even if they were, are all white collar jobs allowing full remote these days?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#204

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #180

imadethis wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No high school student is going to daycare though, and this law is specifically for high school students.

It’s not an analogy. One of school’s main purposes along with sorting and ranking and reducing their tendency to creativity and independent thought is day care.

and getting them to sitdown, shut up and follow instructions without questioning the boss.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#205

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

throwaway2016a wrote: post #168

giantg2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten sounds like a nightmare for working parents. Eight seems like a completely reasonable start time to me, yet this law prevents that. Schools should be able to decide for themselves based off of the parents and what works for those in the district.

While as a parent myself I agree but this is high school. Generally speaking someone who's 13 or older should be able to make their way onto a bus without an adult. When I was that age (granted this was the 90s) I had a key to the house and was trusted to let myself in when I got back. What's worse is the end of day. My kid is younger and I need to be at the bus stop at 3:50 PM every day to meet her.

> 13 or older

Jeez, we've really infantilized our kids.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#206

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #25

feet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the law is based around what's been observed behaviorally/biologically. Not what's good for working parents Schools shouldn't be forcing developing humans into a schedule that impairs their ability to learn and function, no matter what they want to decide

If they do enough physical and mental labor during the day and turn off their smart phones at night, they’ll have no issue going to sleep early enough. On the other hand if you do nothing mentally stimulating or physically tiring all day long, then of course you won’t be able to sleep till late.

> physical labor during the day

You heard it boys and girls, back to ploughing the fields it is!

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#207

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:13 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #189

throwaway2016a wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While as a parent myself I agree but this is high school. Generally speaking someone who's 13 or older should be able to make their way onto a bus without an adult. When I was that age (granted this was the 90s) I had a key to the house and was trusted to let myself in when I got back. What's worse is the end of day. My kid is younger and I need to be at the bus stop at 3:50 PM every day to meet her.

I walked by myself a quarter mile to kindergarten. I walked by myself to a bus stop through the rest of my school days until myself & friends started driving. Most of those years I came home to an empty house at the end of the school day. Not sure why this is a big deal. Kids can manage on their own.

Starting at kindergarten, I always made my own way to work. Walk or bike. At one time school was 3 miles away.

After school, sometimes I'd hunt a bear for dinner.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#208

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:20 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #26

feet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the law is based around what's been observed behaviorally/biologically. Not what's good for working parents Schools shouldn't be forcing developing humans into a schedule that impairs their ability to learn and function, no matter what they want to decide

What is behaviorally/biologically beneficial varies by individual. Societal life should be a factor as that does factor into the holistic well-being of the student. Not just some myopic rule about start times that negatively impacts everything else (after school activities, jobs, parent schedules, etc). "Schools shouldn't be forcing developing humans into a schedule that impairs their ability to learn and function, n…

> Societal life should be a factor as that does factor into the holistic well-being of the student

Not really, tehre seems to be 3 groups of people:

1 - Adults that get some kind of power trip out of tyrany and making kids miserable and justifying it by 'toughening them up'. They deman respect and dicipline while demonstrating total disrespect towards kids and usually have little dicipline themselves. They will have endless stories about how their childhood was tough, and they had to talk to school and home 10 miles, alone, thorugh the snow, and it was uphill both ways

2 - Adults that 'care', by helicoptering over kids and try to shape them into a career they wish they pursued themselves. These guys are hardly better.

3 - Adults that actually respect children as people with independant thoughts and emotional needs

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#209

Post by eikenberry » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:25 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #181

eikenberry wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) They wouldn't need to get out any later. Most of the school day is basically baby sitting and they could easily fit the actual teaching in 2) There have been bunches of studies that show teenagers don't get proper sleep specifically when they get up early. There is something about that age that requires sleeping later to get good rest. No matter when they go to bed. 3) Who says their waking coincides with the curr…

> 1) They wouldn't need to get out any later. Most of the school day is basically baby sitting and they could easily fit the actual teaching in You have reinvented the German Gymnasium (grammar school). Congratulations.

Never heard of that. Doesn't surprise me that the Germans came up with a more efficient education system.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#210

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:27 PM UTC

xkbarkar wrote: post #201

Amazing how this irritates many. We never had classes before 8.30 ( not US ) when I was a kid. School starting at 7 would have caused an outrage. Parents were generally starting work between 8-9 so dropping of the kid on the way to work makes sense. At 7 most parents would have been an hour early for work which is not awesome for everyone. How bizarre to read that an entire culture apparently has promoted extraordina…

There is a catasrophic level of disrespect for the younger generation. It is clear by looking at the tone in the media, the derision with which issues that affect them are treated and the level of devastation we are leaving for them to handle, both in financial debt and climate change.

I don't know if it's envy, if they oldies are uncomfortable with change, or they just feel incomplete if there isn't someone lower down on the foodchain.

Arguing with them is of little use, they already decided their position, and what they are giving you are their justifications and confabulations for why it's okay to do so.

That's why there are articles about how Millenials have destroyed the economy and the housing market because they eat too many avocados and are all turning gay and genderfluid. Millenials even broke politics, but all the politicans are like 80

It's okay for a senile 90 year old to vote even if he never finished school and voted for the same party his entire life, but a 17 year old just isn't mature enough. However it's okay to draft them into the army just 1 year later and send them off to die in a foreign land, without them ever having had a chance to vote on the issue. It's also okay to send them to prison.