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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#201

Post by jhgb »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #196
jhgb wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations and accountable? Those things all too often don't belong into the same sentence in Western societies. Individuals get into prison all the time for transgressions much more minor than what corporations can get away with just by paying often a ridiculous fine. I'd say that individuals are much more beholden to accountability.

> don't belong into the same sentence in Western societies don't belong in the same sentence in the United States. There are other societies in the West.

Sadly I'm not that much of an optimist.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#202

Post by nindalf »

_vertigo wrote: post #190
nindalf wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race is completely immutable. But religion is mostly immutable? Most people don't change their religious beliefs after a certain age. In practice, let's acknowledge that religion isn't changed. So telling someone, yeah you're fine to join us as long as you can change this characteristic about you that you almost certainly won't change ... how is that actually different?

I guess in practice I have seen a lot of race based persecution and discrimination, not so much religious persecution. Not saying it doesn’t exist anywhere or for anyone, but based on my own experience, saying “love the lord god” feels way less discriminatory than “white people are preferred to block people” or something.

Ah, fair enough. I come from a country where religion based discrimination is the norm. And I fucking detest it. Whenever I see it I'm going to call it out.

Thanks for the perspective. I see now why folks in this thread are acting so cavalier about this - they haven't seen what I've seen.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#203

Post by bitwize »

tpoacher wrote: post #173
bitwize wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Contributor Covenant is the gold standard for a reason: it is a response to the bigotry and harassment problems that were endemic to the open source communities. Alone it doesn't achieve much, but combined with a good faith enforcement board it helps keep a community a pleasant, joyful place to contribute to, for everyone. And that will increase software quality and attract quality people, aside from being, you k…

> combined with a good faith enforcement which, of course, is the elephant in the room, isn't it. Good faith contributors don't need the code, because it was not written for them. It was written for the pathological cases. And systems designed around pathological cases are themselves pathological.

Good faith users don't need security policies because the security policies weren't written for them. They were written for the pathological cases.

Good faith citizens don't need laws because the laws weren't written for them, etc.

Systems designed around the pathological cases help keep those pathological cases at bay. They are a framework for allowing the good-faith people to continue to act in good faith without having to constantly worry about the pathological cases themselves. I'd love to go back to the days when people left their doors unlocked and no one had a password to get into their account, but those days are gone. So are the days of not having a code of conduct on your open source project.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#204

Post by nindalf »

adamrezich wrote: post #195
nindalf wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many open-source projects' Codes of Ethics/Conduct/whatever make me feel explicitly unwelcome Most open source projects Code of Conduct boil down to "don't be mean to other contributors, treat them well". I'm sorry this makes you feel explicitly unwelcome. That said, it's never been a problem for me to adhere to that. This is a first time for me being excluded, and it feels bad. I'm commenting on why this person ha…

until a few years ago, it was implicit that everyone contributing to open-source projects would treat each other respectfully, because personal politics or identity issues or whatever were wholly divorced from writing code to make computers do things. this is no longer the case, and people running many open-source projects feel the need to legislate morality upon its contributors, as though they were kindergarten tea…

> what could possibly cause this sense of entitlement

You keep typing this out in different words, almost like you're seeking to reinforce over and over that I'm entitled. I see what you're doing, you're heard.

And I'll say what I've said earlier - I feel entitled to be treated well because people generally treat me well.

And your brilliant contribution is "but why should that be the norm?" Thanks.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#205

Post by generalizations »

fooey wrote: post #122
logifail wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

>> the developers are saying "we will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us"

> in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance

I have a lot more respect for people whose ethics are not conditional on the behavior of others.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#206

Post by chasil »

smoe wrote: post #85
molyss wrote: post #11

seeing as some people have already added some comments criticizing the code of conduct, I thought I'd add what I think is the most important parts of that code of Ethics : > No one is required to follow The Rule [...] or even think that [it] is a good idea. [...] anyone is free to dispute or ignore that idea [...] > This is a one-way promise [...]. the developers are saying "we will treat you this way regardless of h…

> The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. Sure, as far as I'm aware code of conducts/ethics only ever apply to contributors, no-one has beliefs being forced upon them. But that seems to be about the highest bar of entry for an interested developer I have seen in any project. Not waving pitchforks here, I'm fine with them having this…

This point seems incongruous to me, without its opposite:

"45. Be in dread of hell."

In zeal for mutual understanding, and practical fruit in general solutions that solve problems escaping a single perspective, would be that opposite for me.

We cannot approach the sublime within ourselves by fear, in my opinion.

There are a few other well-known teachings that appear to be missing from these rules, the first among them is the New Commandment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Commandment

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#207

Post by earth_walker »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #18

Before I got to talk with Richard, I found many things online about his Christian values and public domain license and how odd it was. And I thought this was THE fascinating thing about Richard that led to the database and other things. But then I talked to him. He's a great engineer but a regular guy running a business around a thing he built. He gets to be a bit whimsical because he can. He can use his own source c…

Just want to say that I loved this interview, it was the first I had heard of your show and I've been a regular listener since. Thank you!

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#209

Post by paulryanrogers »

strager wrote: post #177
paulryanrogers wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the numbers far more people have suffered under these dithering superstitions, that doesn't make them objectively better.

> far more people have suffered Compared to what?

Compared to modern sensibilities like equality for women, prohibition of slavery, trial by a jury of peers, medicine based on evidence, etc.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#210

Post by BrainVirus »

fooey wrote: post #122
logifail wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

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