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Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

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Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#201

Post by lm28469 »

christophilus wrote: post #103
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. Its a commoditized market where they only make money when you buy their supplies so naturally they will engineer the product to work well with their supplies only. This might be an opportunity for open source printer componen…

> There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. What? A hackable, OSS printer whose manufacturer puts time and effort into reducing waste and creating the best, longest lasting ink on the planet would crush it. Well, maybe not. But anytime anyone has said: “That’s it. There’s nothing more to do here.” It tells me there’s a complacent market ripe for disruption.

> A hackable, OSS printer

Outside of our bubble nobody cares about that

There is always something you can do, we see it with phones, just add more gimmicks on top, the thing is smartphones are aimed at the general population and became a fashion/class/status symbol. Printers are just printers, they work just fine and most of them are used in pro environment (aka most people don't pay, maintain or replace printers).

> It tells me there’s a complacent market ripe for disruption.

Then let's disrupt coffee mugs, or the wheel... some techs are good enough that further """progress""" isn't required.

Most people who have issues with printers buy cheap ones and/or use them once every 6 months, they then proceed to complain that they don't work anymore and that all printers are bad. It's like buying a car and never doing any maintenance until it dies and then complain about reliability.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#202

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

christophilus wrote: post #103
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. Its a commoditized market where they only make money when you buy their supplies so naturally they will engineer the product to work well with their supplies only. This might be an opportunity for open source printer componen…

> There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. What? A hackable, OSS printer whose manufacturer puts time and effort into reducing waste and creating the best, longest lasting ink on the planet would crush it. Well, maybe not. But anytime anyone has said: “That’s it. There’s nothing more to do here.” It tells me there’s a complacent market ripe for disruption.

So it sounds like a company like System76 should build a printer and partner with no-brand ink cartridge companies to supply ink.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#203

Post by scarface74 »

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #191
scarface74 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coupled with the concentrating monopolisation of the economy, There is no “monopoly” in the printer industry and it’s definitely not holding the economy “hostage”. We do not need the government to break up “Big Printer”.

Capitalism optimises for monopolies. Everyone agrees on this - this is why we have antitrust mechanisms. Unfortunately, they tend to facilitate and reinforce the problem instead of combat it. My comment is a general one on markets at large, hyper-focusing on the printer market is only valid as a rhetorical device.

I shouldn’t be focused on the printer market when commenting on a post about printers?

The printer market is a commodity market - the very opposite of a monopoly.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#204

Post by lm28469 »

yreg wrote: post #40
carpenecopinum wrote: post #13

I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. Decades of innovation that have been invested, not to make a better product, but mostly on how to extract more and more money from their victims, I mean "customers". I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spendin…

If you want to print something once a month you can buy a cheap printer for like €40 – which is probably subsidized because the manufacturer thinks they will earn it back on selling you overpriced ink. But they won't since you will buy a single toner and cover all of your printing needs. Anyway, I don't have a printer. I always just take my pdf and take a walk to a local printing service.

Maximise the waste and minimise the cost, yay !

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#205

Post by anjel »

Spooky23 wrote: post #41
qwerty456127 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spending several hundred bucks on a device For printing something like once a month, it is even harder to justify wasting space by putting a printer. Printers should be put around in form of vending machines which would let you you insert a USB stick, drop some pennies and print the PDFs.

They are. Public libraries and places like FedEx Office do this and have for years. FedEx even has a virtual printer driver. Until my kids were a little older, I had an old HP laser printer and then one of those cheap Brother devices. Now I use a little HP mfp with instant ink… it’s essentially a worry free existence.

I was at Kinkos last month to print a us govt passport renewal application document. The document had one tiny bit of color, entirely non essential to the purpose of the document. FedEx printer will scan the print job, and if there is any color in it, will unavoidably print in color, at much higher price per page. I asked, there is no way to force it to print in mono chrome.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#206

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

lm28469 wrote: post #201
christophilus wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. What? A hackable, OSS printer whose manufacturer puts time and effort into reducing waste and creating the best, longest lasting ink on the planet would crush it. Well, maybe not. But anytime anyone has said: “That’s it. There’s nothing more to do here.” It tells me there’s a complacent market ripe for disruption.

> A hackable, OSS printer Outside of our bubble nobody cares about that There is always something you can do, we see it with phones, just add more gimmicks on top, the thing is smartphones are aimed at the general population and became a fashion/class/status symbol. Printers are just printers, they work just fine and most of them are used in pro environment (aka most people don't pay, maintain or replace printers). >…

> Then let's disrupt coffee mugs, or the wheel... some techs are good enough that further """progress""" isn't required.

There's still room to improve insulation on mugs, and I dare you to go tell any car manufacturer that wheels are a totally solved problem with no room to improve (personally I'm hoping one of the airless variants gets to mass market so I never have another flat).

Some techs are good enough that people get complacent; that's not the same as running out of room to improve.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#207

Post by yreg »

lm28469 wrote: post #204
yreg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to print something once a month you can buy a cheap printer for like €40 – which is probably subsidized because the manufacturer thinks they will earn it back on selling you overpriced ink. But they won't since you will buy a single toner and cover all of your printing needs. Anyway, I don't have a printer. I always just take my pdf and take a walk to a local printing service.

Maximise the waste and minimise the cost, yay !

What?

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#208

Post by xadhominemx »

carpenecopinum wrote: post #13

I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. Decades of innovation that have been invested, not to make a better product, but mostly on how to extract more and more money from their victims, I mean "customers". I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spendin…

Low end printers are sold at a loss. Manufacturers must sell OEM ink/toner to make a profit. If you do not what to purchase expensive OEM ink/toner, there are many ink tank type printers available. Those printers are sold at a profit because replacement ink is sold at essentially no profit.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#209

Post by s0l1dsnak3123 »

scarface74 wrote: post #203
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism optimises for monopolies. Everyone agrees on this - this is why we have antitrust mechanisms. Unfortunately, they tend to facilitate and reinforce the problem instead of combat it. My comment is a general one on markets at large, hyper-focusing on the printer market is only valid as a rhetorical device.

I shouldn’t be focused on the printer market when commenting on a post about printers ? The printer market is a commodity market - the very opposite of a monopoly.

Yes, when replying to my general comment, you shouldn't use the typical conservative rhetorical tactic of using the specific to ridicule the principle.

I was making a general argument about the pattern one can see across the economy. The printer market is another example of the same pattern that we see all over the place.

I don't claim that the printer market is a single entity that towers over all - my point is that our economic system optimises for this eventuality. Again: this isn't controversial, antitrust laws have been in place for a very long time.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#210

Post by copperx »

pc86 wrote: post #106
pid-1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, I'm in my mid 30s and I really can't remember printers being alright.

I am the same age as you; when we were young the printers themselves were garbage. Constantly breaking, ink cartridges drying out quickly if you weren't printing regularly. Do they still have that damn ribbon thing inside of them? I seem to remember that being a constant source of pain for 13-15 year old me. Now the printers, mechanically, seem pretty good. Some still feel cheap but not necessarily low quality. But a…

I don't remember printers having ink back then. They were all laser. Inkjets came later, but they were seen as toys to print large banners.
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