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V Language Review

mawfig.github.io

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Re: V Language Review

#201

Post by amedvednikov »

slimygrapes wrote: post #149
creata wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "no side effects (besides I/O)" is so absurd it's funny.

Which means you are conceiving a strawman to mock. The point is “no side effects other than IO” is a useful observation to make about how a language feels to use and the kinds of programs it encourages one to write. Whether V is a good example of such a language I’ve no idea.

Exactly, that was the idea. The wording was already changed a couple of weeks ago to more clear on the home page. Will update the docs as well.

Re: V Language Review

#202

Post by amedvednikov »

super_flanker wrote: post #200
amedvednikov wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't vaporware back then, it isn't now. Here's a 1.5 year old demo of V's autofree working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM

Again!! Same video you've been throwing on whoever asks about "autofree", knowing very well that it doesn't work. I asked this question before and was banned on discord, do you have control flow graph analysis anywhere in V? If not, how do you suppose your autofree engine would work flawlessly?

Nobody bans for questions.

And the video I posted proves that it works. Keeping saying "it doesn't work" is ridiculous.

Re: V Language Review

#204

Post by amedvednikov »

seebs wrote: post #100
Tozen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You say it "comes off as part of an effort ... to mount another attack". Maybe it does to you, but I don't know why. I've never heard of this "fierce and dirty" competition between young languages. I've never seen anything even a bit like that. I've only seen fierce fighting between advocates of large well-established languages. Xe's post struck me as accurate at the time, and having that context to compare with make…

It's not accurate. For example, measuring the performance of a debug build, with slow backend, without vlib cached, and with vfmt on.

You can see that V is actually as fast as is claimed on the website:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc

Same with other points from the author that publicly claimed that "V has to die".

Re: V Language Review

#205

Post by super_flanker »

ylluminate wrote: post #173
Tozen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

100% right. It's sick. As a donor and supporter of this VALIANT AND VALID effort, I applaud the V community. It's full of sincere passion, love and is putting forth a great effort to realize something useful and needed in this sector.

So you think it's okay to lie and mislead people?

You're going round the comments and telling everybody how wrong they are. Do you have any thing to say about concerns raised in the blog post? Or would you say that it's a lie and all the points raised are based on falsehood?

Re: V Language Review

#206

Post by creata »

amedvednikov wrote: post #167
ghusbands wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate mail is fairly typical in these circumstances. So is people asking for evidence. The possible next stages are also predictable: 1. They don't post it, and get accused of lying. 2. They post one of the tamer examples, and get accused of overreacting to nothing. 3. They post a median example, and get told that people reacting with vigour is normal and it's not about them. 4. They post a very strong example, hurtin…

Quoted post unavailable.

How could you possibly know that‽

Re: V Language Review

#207

Post by Tozen »

super_flanker wrote: post #189
haskellandchill wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I didn't catch that vibe at all. You're saying if you do this without involving the community it is trolling? I guess it is fair to run the article by the community somehow, but I'm not sure the best approach to that. I'm doing a similar thing for Nim so I would like to not be seen as trolling.

They call names to anybody who dares to ask a genuine question they don't like. It's a meme by now, how easy it is to get banned on V's discord server. I've a feeling that author tried to bring these issues on their discord server, got himself banned and then decided to write a blog.

No post body was provided.

Re: V Language Review

#208

Post by Tozen »

ptx wrote: post #160

> Variables aren’t immutable in any significant way because you can trivially turn an immutable reference into a mutable one. To be fair, they didn't claim that the values were immutable, only the variables. Isn't the example in the article basically the same as Java's final variables, i.e. immutable references to mutable values? > No global variables [...] Evaluation: V does not prevent you from creating and mutatin…

No post body was provided.

Re: V Language Review

#209

Post by ptx »

amedvednikov wrote: post #199
ptx wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I misunderstood then. I was saying that it seems to behave basically like Java. Is that a bug?

V has global consts, they are immutable, but can be initialized with complex expressions, for example `const x = foo()` There's a bug that allows to trick the compiler and modify the const via another variable, it's a one line fix, and will be fixed today. Global mutable variables are only allowed with `-enable-globals` and are supposed to be used only in low level code, like drivers and kernels.

If I understand the example code correctly, it's modifying a heap-allocated struct that's pointed to by a global const. So the global const contains an address which is not modified, but the thing at that address is modified. Right?

What does the intended behaviour (after the fix) look like? Are mutable fields in structs disallowed if the struct is pointed to by a const?

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