I did my last postdoc in another European country more or less 8 years ago and my salary was 1700 euros per month (after taxes). Very limited funds for traveling or going to conferences. That was barely livable, considering it is temporary money, you cannot ask for any mortgage, cannot plan any future and you are often starting to have gray hair (or a full head of gray hair).
Postdoc in Germany sees around 2400± after tax per month
>If the pay isn't good, the culture and work should be. In academia, that's almost never true When I think back to my thought process when I was applying for academic and research jobs after my PhD, there's one thing I remember that always keeps me from ever second guessing my decision to move to the private sector. At least in my field, so many people in academia and research had big egos and were a-holes. Some of t…
The closer I got to my PIs and their friends/enemies in various academic departments, the more I realized that university departmental politics are more stereotypically 'high school drama' than anything I actually experienced in high school! My god, professors can be so petty. Don't consult a self-perceived expert on a field on a project you're considering? Uninvited from their July 4th BBQ. Standing up for a junior…
So true, lol. Stoner by John Williams does a good job of showing this.
> Graduate students are also listening to postdocs, who in recent years have become increasingly vocal about the precarious nature of their positions and the challenges of getting by on a postdoc salary
This is exactly what saved me. I was an undergraduate research assistant and our postdoc warned me.
There's also a difference in US and Europe conventions. In Europe, there's typically a 2-year MS followed by a 3-6 year PhD. In the US, these are typically combined into a single 5-8 year PhD program. So an "all but dissertation" phase in Europe is the entirety of the program, it's only the second (and most important) part in a US program.
Yeah, and so if you skip the masters then day one of your PhD is the start of your dissertation.
In practice in the U.S. the early part of a PhD program can be very similar to a master's. It's relatively common for people who leave PhD programs to walk away with a master's degree they didn't intend to get. It's called "mastering out."
Don't get me wrong, we are mostly on the same page w.r.t. salaries and what not. > BTW, what is your university's pension plan like? Postdocs get the same pension plan/401k plan as any other faculty (postdocs are indeed research faculty). You are also an employee of the state government, with reasonably good health insurance and other benefits. It can't compare to private sector (especially tech sector), but compared…
> Don't get me wrong, we are mostly on the same page w.r.t. salaries and what not. That's fair. I do think managers have responsibility to their direct reports. The postdoc situation in th US isn't going to change as long as faculty and post-docs continue producing. So, quite seriously, the solution is for faculty and post-docs to collectively say "we can't get work done under these conditions". Otherwise things will…
Retirement plan sounds basically exactly the same as mine was as a postdoc (and it's probably actually a 403b, not that there's any real difference), though it only took effect after the first year and required you to stay long enough.
> Graduate students are also listening to postdocs, who in recent years have become increasingly vocal about the precarious nature of their positions and the challenges of getting by on a postdoc salary This is exactly what saved me. I was an undergraduate research assistant and our postdoc warned me.
> a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role Where do you get these numbers from? This is not at all like that in Europe. A postdoc gets (say, in France) 30k per year, doing a calm, interesting job and paid travel to a couple of conferences per year, with almost total freedom to choose their daily schedule. This is not a high salary, but it is c…
I'm a PhD student in CS in the USA. At my school in Boston, we are paid a ~40K USD/yr stipend. My friends in industry make a _minimum_ of 120k/yr, and some make considerably more than that (think 200k+), in junior / "entry-level" positions. When I complete the PhD, if I go to industry in the USA, my income will probably be similar to that of my friends who will have been in industry the entire time (and gotten steady…
Getting hired as a PHD is usually a +1 in level compared to a junior.
The closer I got to my PIs and their friends/enemies in various academic departments, the more I realized that university departmental politics are more stereotypically 'high school drama' than anything I actually experienced in high school! My god, professors can be so petty. Don't consult a self-perceived expert on a field on a project you're considering? Uninvited from their July 4th BBQ. Standing up for a junior…
So true, lol. Stoner by John Williams does a good job of showing this.
I never know what to think about reports on labour demand anymore, I have heard "there are no jobs", "there are lots of jobs", "noone is working", simultaneously all year. I guess it all comes down to who is saying it. I guess most of the time it's the fact that the jobs are crap, but employers don't want to shift the social contract that creates the apparent contradiction, but who knows.
The jobs are crap, and the pay is low. Postdocs used to be an exception, something prestigious you did before settling into a permanent role that might be a lower-ranked university. If you were really good, you might do 2 years at IAS or MIT before taking the position at a place like UCLA or Michigan (which are still excellent, just not as highly ranked). Then it became something you had to do, before getting any job…
I'm not surprised this didn't happen earlier. The pandemic disrupted everything and gave people a good reason to rethink their life choices. Industry salaries grew faster than academic salaries. Teaching became more stressful and less rewarding. Instead of being in the same place with other people with similar interests, you had to do research remotely from your tiny apartment. And because you were probably far away from home, travel restrictions often prevented you from seeing your friends and family. The academia started looking much worse, and getting a job where you can choose where you live became even more attractive.