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Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

latimes.com

201–210 of 211 posts

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#201
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really natural though, is it? What? I’m not sure how water could not be considered a natural resource. It just exists, it didn’t take a human hand to create.

Unfortunately the government sold it. Now of course they could buy it back ... That's unacceptable, apparently. Just taking it away, no compensation is what everyone seems to want.

And the price the current water holders want is apparently infinite because they claim the right to all the water that falls in perpetuity. We have removed rights to certain classes of objects before when managing other resources. If I recall correctly land deeds used to assume rights from heaven to hell but then air and mineral rights were carved off for the sake of commerce. We can do so again

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, I assume the discharge water from washing machines could easily be used to water most of the landscaping in Southern California. detergents used for washing likely make it a bad idea

tell us you didn’t really read the parent without telling us you didn’t really read the parent

Thank you.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 2005 to 2015, Israel changed its entire water system by building desalination plants. Like Central and Southern California today, Israel used to issue similar dire warnings about freshwater supplies running dangerously low. These days, believe it or not, Israel now exports freshwater. Yes. tiny, little, arid Israel exports freshwater to neighboring Jordan. Freshwater, like agricultural products, seems to be a pr…

> Second, I assume the discharge water from washing machines could easily be used to water most of the landscaping in Southern California. detergents used for washing likely make it a bad idea

No post body was provided.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove into Sacramento last year in late summer. There are flooded rice paddies just outside the city. Rice paddies! In California! In the middle of a historic drought!

FYI: Sacramento is a natural delta and most of the water you saw still continues on through the water supply. While one can always suggest more economical uses of water than any particular use/crop, the reality of what’s going on there might be different than your intuitions. https://rice.ucanr.edu/Water_Use_by_Rice/

I'm not versed on specific water usage by rice paddies but am aware that:

The inland Central Valley of California was historically a seasonal or episodic lake. The Great Flood of 1862 saw 3m (10 ft) of water dumped on the state over 43 days from December 1861 through January 1862, followed by a warm storm melting much of the snowpack:

The entire Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys were inundated. An area about 300 miles (480 km) long, averaging 20 miles (32 km) in width,[21] and covering 5,000 to 6,000 square miles (13,000 to 16,000 km2) was under water.[15] The water flooding the Central Valley reached depths up to 30 feet (9.1 m), completely submerging telegraph poles that had just been installed between San Francisco and New York. Transportation, mail, and communications across the state were disrupted for a month.[22] Water covered portions of the valley from December 1861, through the spring, and into the summer of 1862.[15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862

Much of the valley still floods seasonally, with designated flood zones such as the Yolo Bypass, between Sacramento and Davis.

A key problem within the central valley has been groundwater loss resulting in subsidence exceeding 15 m (50 feet) in places. Flooded paddies might help contribute to groundwater recharge.

Much of the paddy water is through-flow, which I'd presume returns to river flows. What the impacts of ag practices (fertiliser, pesticides) are I'm not sure. There will also be evaporative losses, of course.

I'd like to see a net impact / net flows analysis. The picture's likely more complex than a brief glance from the highway would afford, however.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They farm where there is water: rivers, lakes, flood planes, deltas, etc. It is the cities diverting the water from these places. What do you call a place where the lakes, rivers, flood planes, and deltas are dried up? That's right. A desert. If current trends continue that's exactly what you're going to have.

> What do you call a place where the lakes, rivers, flood planes, and deltas are dried up? I think you mean diverted. Cities are actively draining reservoirs, too.

No they are not, not at the same scale as ag.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#206
post #37

How the West was Lost: In America’s first climate war, John Wesley Powell tried to prevent the overdevelopment that led to environmental devastation. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/how-the-we...

Back then they didn't have good desalination technology. Now we do, and, while Israel is a leader, they export: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the...

According to Google, Israel is 85 miles across at the widest point. That barely gets you to San Bernadino, CA. It certainly doesn't include any of Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico. The southern tip of Arizona looks to be within 85 miles of the Gulf of California.

Desalinating water would help California's residents, but the energy requirements for desalinating and transporting water to the desert southwest (that shouldn't have been settled so extensively in the first place) continue to elude us.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#208
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600,000 immediate American casualties (not to mention the slaves) is not a great example here, of something being "simple"

COVID killed over a million. The culpability for that isn't simple either.

What does that have to do with this topic?

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some US beef is already produced with private water traded on the free market, at least in the western US. This is already priced into the cost of that beef. The price of water fluctuates every year but as a percentage of cost for beef, it isn't that much.

Why do those farmers (or ranchers) use private water? Is it just the obvious - not enough public or on-premises water?

In places where water is scarce, like the US mountain west, all water is owned by someone. Drilling a well or having surface water does not entitle you to the water ipso facto, the water right has to be legally acquired from either a private owner or the State.

Prime grazing lands do not always come with water rights. Lease or purchase of that land to raise cattle requires acquiring sufficient water rights elsewhere. Since the State often has no additional water grants to allocate for that aquifer or water system, you then have to lease those water rights on the private market from an existing owner. While you could purchase titled water rights, they are rarely for sale since there is a ready market for renting them.

Re: Big water cutbacks ordered amid Colorado River shortage

#210
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really natural though, is it? Regulated by the Hoover dam and supplying people living in deserts. Obviosuly people who choose to live in remote arid places don't automatically have the right to be provided with water by everybody else.

> It's not really natural though, is it? What? I’m not sure how water could not be considered a natural resource. It just exists, it didn’t take a human hand to create.

Obviously I'm talking about the transport of the water from where it naturally occurs to where people want to use it, not somehow creating it out of atoms.
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