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US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

bloomberg.com

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Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#201

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

Jcowell wrote: post #72
varjag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the classic "don't rattle Putin or nuclear war" defense.

Well yes? Is there any indication, given Putin’s back to a wall that he would not order nukes as a final fuck you ?

Fuck who? He's more likely to destroy Russia and not much else.

Given the performance of the Russian military what makes you think that Russian nukes (and the people who operate them) are any better?

US intelligence and capabilities are likely much more effective than anyone knows.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#202

Post by snemvalts »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #174
snemvalts wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile RUB to USD is at its highest in nearly 5 years Is that meant to demonstrate economic strength? * Russians have massive amount of brain drain. Most of tech employees have left, leaving only people extracting oil, people who turn it into fertilizer and gasoline and supporting roles. * They can't build military tech because of sanctions. Starting to use 1950s and 1960s tanks. * They've privatized and violate…

Serious question then. . . How long before their economy collapses? Of course with the idea that everything you're saying is true. Which at this point, I have no basis to disagree with you. I'm just wondering how long you think it will take for all of this finally come to a head.

Once they run out of military hardware probably. Russian military doctrine has throughout ages been to throw massive amounts of human lives at the enemy, same is true for today. At some point however, without military hardware it will become absurd even for them.

Russians themselves have gotten used to consumer goods etc from the west, but they are mostly too afraid to rise up against or fight for Putin, who has most of modern russian state built around himself. So, no uprising from within probably.

Altogether if not the end of summer, then it's into very scary territory. Famine + energy prices - while Russia being unable to advance in Ukraine because of seasonal changes.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#203

Post by varjag »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #63
varjag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the classic "don't rattle Putin or nuclear war" defense.

What kind of moronic dismissal is that? Avoiding nuclear war should be our #1 priority. "Oh those stupid idiots are scared of nuclear war"

No post body was provided.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#204

Post by alphabettsy »

nostromo wrote: post #27

The US government has completely lost the ability to act strategically. Biden is currently in Saudi Arabia begging for more oil production, meanwhile he's blocking measures to increase North American oil production. So, instead of fixing our own problem with inflation, we're asking one of the worst regimes on Earth for help and enriching Russia with higher prices simultaneously. Even if you support greener energy, li…

> he's blocking measures to increase North American oil production.

How?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#205

Post by wewxjfq »

tomp wrote: post #40
k__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the problem was that they didn't go 100% in on green tech.

Anyone claiming that we could be 100% non-nuclear non-CO2 is completely delusional. There are only a few tiny examples (like Greenland) that have sufficiently bizarre local sources of energy. And that’s not even taking into account plastics, fertiliser etc. The price of this delusion is being paid right now: impeding famine, energy costs exploding, Europe financing Russian war in Europe. The goal was “clean abundant…

> Anyone claiming that we could be 100% non-nuclear non-CO2 is completely delusional

Not even half as delusional as the pro-nuclear power talk here, where every argument in favor goes, no matter how outlandish, unrealistic, or flat out wrong.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#206

Post by AzzieElbab »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #112
yks wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew. Second, after the end of WW2 we lived (wanted to live) under a spell that conquering whole countries with some opportunistic genocide on top is not going to happen anymore, or at least not in the "civilized" Europe. Now, I hope the spell is off, we can see the world more clearly, and it's a raw power competition i…

> First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew That's completely false. Just read the news from February. U.S. Intelligence was warning Ukraine that Putin was planning to invade while Zelensky was in denial. The invasion began on Thursday Feb. 24. On Monday Feb. 21, Zelenky was insistent that Putin wouldn't be crazy enough invade Ukraine. Here's some articles from right before the invasion - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-eu…

denial or not, Ukraine repelled Putin's coupe d'etat. Neither West nor Putin expected that.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#207

Post by pydry »

spamizbad wrote: post #186
pydry wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They withdraw now and a year later theres a NATO base in Mariupol. Donbas is the location from which the Nazis launched the attack on the USSR which almost lost them WW2. Its strategic significance cant be understated. Finland and Sweden are not as important.

There's already NATO bases in the Barents Sea (and Turkey via the Black Sea) in addition along their land borders via the baltic states (minus Belarus). Their actions have also pushed Finland and Sweden into the arms of NATO. The thing about the Cuban missile crisis is that Kennedy was able to get Russian missiles AWAY from the United States. Russia's actions are getting hardware placed closer. And why is that? Proba…

>The thing about the Cuban missile crisis is that Kennedy was able to get Russian missiles AWAY from the United States.

It only happened in the first place because the US put missiles in Turkey. Take them away and suddenly the soviet union is ok with removing the cuban nukes.

In this case a simple "Ukraine wont be joining NATO" would have prevented this war.

>Russia's actions are getting hardware placed closer.

The strategic significance of the other locations is far less than the donbas. Note the whole "location where they almost lost ww2" thing. It's kind of important. The US/NATO wanted a base in Mariupol because its the perfect location to threaten Russia, and they almost got it. Finland was the consolation prize.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#208

Post by jonringer117 »

JTbane wrote: post #100
pkaye wrote: post #13

What happened to all the people pushing organic fertilizers? Why don't they source more of that?

Compost takes years to make, and is bulky. Ammonia-based fertilizer can be made on an industrial scale with continuous processes and is basically pure nutrients for plants.

Compost takes 20 days to 20 months depending on the feed stock. The main issue with compost is that it can be effective in high-intensity operations like market gardens, but it's much less effective on large acre operations (corn, soy, wheat, etc).

Not to mention that compost is really difficult to come by now.

Unless a farmer is making compost on the side, they can't really treat it as a known input.

I would also argue that chronic over-usage of ammonia-based fertilizers and over-tiling has contributed to degradation to much of the world's farming soil. Which has given rise to many adverse effects such nutrient runoff, poor water infiltration, soil erosion, and downstream effects.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#209

Post by juve1996 »

dxhdr wrote: post #62

Meanwhile RUB to USD is at its highest in nearly 5 years. Cutting Russia off from SWIFT has only strengthened their ties to India and China. Russia is still invading Ukraine, and now we're dealing with soaring food and energy prices at home. At some point you have to consider whether this level of diplomatic incompetence is intentional.

Russia will not come out of this any better. China and India are gleefully picking the bones, and it's hard to blame them. The fudged numbers of the Ruble are irrelevant.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#210

Post by cpursley »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #174
snemvalts wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile RUB to USD is at its highest in nearly 5 years Is that meant to demonstrate economic strength? * Russians have massive amount of brain drain. Most of tech employees have left, leaving only people extracting oil, people who turn it into fertilizer and gasoline and supporting roles. * They can't build military tech because of sanctions. Starting to use 1950s and 1960s tanks. * They've privatized and violate…

Serious question then. . . How long before their economy collapses? Of course with the idea that everything you're saying is true. Which at this point, I have no basis to disagree with you. I'm just wondering how long you think it will take for all of this finally come to a head.

Considering that commodities matter and Russia has them in spades, is run by (mostly) competent people (notice I didn't say moral or ethical) and has many friends outside the west, including the most populous countries, their economy is not collapsing any time soon.
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