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Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

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Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#201

Post by code_duck »

Group_B wrote: post #55
code_duck wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a drug reaction, but I had a rather dreadful experience with Mayo, where I reported severe digestive problems which had led to me losing a great amount of weight over a few months while being constantly in pain (175 to 118, I’m 5’10”). They did some esophagus tests, they looked okay and Mayo wrote it off as “health anxiety”. It turns out I was actually developing a form of adult onset type 1 diabetes (LADA).

Was your blood sugar extremely high during that time before being diagnosed?

I have no idea what it was when I was at Mayo, but later on, yes. I went into diabetic ketoacidosis and had 650 glucose at the ER, with an HbA1c that indicated an average of 300 for the preceding 3 months.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#202

Post by FollowingTheDao »

sph wrote: post #179
hombre_fatal wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a dose doesn’t last forever. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was a net negative. You tend to feel worse on the comedown for example.

My come down is only feeling a little more tired. I suspect you are not talking from experience but hearsay. > Well, a dose doesn’t last forever. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was a net negative. My near-sightedness returns as soon as I put down my prescription glasses. I've had to wear them every single day to be able to function decently. Imagine that.

As someone who’s been institutionalized in a psychiatric hospital four times in a still living with bipolar schizoaffective disorder I can tell you being nearsighted is no comparison to having a mood disorder. If people were not ignorant enough to ignore all the nutritional facts that go around the production of catecholamines there would be no need for medication.

Your doctors are probably doing more harm than good by not treating an underlying metabolic disorder. It’s quite possible you have an underlying B6 deficiency.

Why don’t you go get your B6 levels tested and ping me when you get them back OK?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16846100/

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#203

Post by Djvacto »

citilife wrote: post #159
ericd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they…

To be clear, I'm actually blaming therapists and "mental health experts". Parents are clearly doing their best and looking for support. The "experts" are paid (in many cases) through recurring attendance and kick-backs from pharma... why would we assume they'd want to resolve the issue any other way? Even the research is often funded by pharma... Note the NIH even receives revenue (and individual scientists) from cre…

Your diabetes analogy fails, because ADHD does not have an environmentally-caused Type 2.

ADHD is hereditary, genetic, and has to do with how the brain tends to be wired in that individual. ADHD can be helped through environment and habit changes, and impacts can be reduced, but you cannot cure it.

It seems that you think ADHD is not a real disease, given your quotes around the words "disease", "cure", etc. If some people are mis-diagnosed, it doesn't invalidate all the others.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#204

Post by FollowingTheDao »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #174
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy fails because type one diabetes also has an causal environmental component: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5571740/

I disagree: “ In this paper, we discuss candidate triggers of islet autoimmunity and factors thought to promote progression from autoimmunity to overt type 1 diabetes (figure 1). These factors seem to have their effect mainly in the genetically predisposed individuals .” [my emphasis]

“ Importantly, environmental factors that trigger islet autoimmunity might differ from those that promote progression from autoimmunity to overt diabetes.”

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#205

Post by billjings »

tjridesbikes wrote: post #135

Anecdata, but I've been on methylphenidate (Concerta) since age 7, and holy cow has it impacted my life in an insanely positive way. 21 years later, I'm still on Concerta, but excelling in my career, spending meaningful time with friends, family, and hobbies, and generally pretty happy with myself. When I tried dropping the meds in college, my life basically fell apart in a matter of months. My then-girlfriend now-wi…

I did the same thing as you. I wasn't on Concerta for as long; I started on Ritalin in 3rd grade, and switched to Concerta my senior year of high school. I dropped all meds in college.

I actually tried TWICE to drop my meds. Each time my life fell apart, as you described.

The second time, however, I did not interpret my life falling apart the way you did: instead of interpreting it as validation of the medication's effectiveness, I interpreted it as a withdrawal period. So the second time I quit, I expected going into it that the process of adapting to life without medication would probably last at least 2-3 years.

I can't say what would've happened had I taken your path and not mine. But fifteen years in, I have no regrets. I still don't do what I'm told, but I'm productive and happy and useful. I've found my own way, and it's been a good way.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#206

Post by andybak »

citilife wrote: post #197
andybak wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me put it another way then - ADHD meds increase the range of tasks I'm able to do succesfully. They add to my life rather than take something away. I'm talking about tasks I want to do but would struggle with without medication (mainly coding for pleasure). Yeah - I could find different things to do with my life, but I love coding and I am delighted to find there's a simple pill I can take that helps me do more o…

I understand what you're saying, but reread what you said and replace "medication" and "pill" with "cocaine". Amphetamine can be used in the same manner and for the same perceived reasons. Granted, I am happy for you and I think drug laws are ridiculous.

(Methylphenidate is not amphetamine btw. Other ADHD meds are literally amphetamines but I'm only talking about methylphenidate)

If cocaine had positive effects that outweighed the negatives then it absolutely should be prescribed. But it doesn't. Unlike methylphenidate - which for most people has fairly mild downsides at the doses it is usually prescribed in. It is also largely non-addictive with little evidence of long-term health damage.

Also unlike cocaine.

All in all, I'm not sure how this comparison helps.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#207

Post by crucialfelix »

screye wrote: post #195

Can someone comment on whether ADHD medication leads to 'loss' of the unfiltered imagination that I have come to associate with my perpetually distracted self ? A friend on ADHD meds told me that it feels like trading unbridled creativity for stability. He found it to be an essential drug for functioning, but I got a sense that it involved losing something really central to your sense of self. Almost like being made…

That has always been my fear and objection. I worshipped my own crazy creative engine. But after decades of failing to complete those awesome ideas, failure to execute, follow through I would suggest that you experiment. It's not some permanent contract.

Currently I take L Tyrosine, CDP Choline, coffee, lionsmane and kava. My focus and ease of attention are amazing, and I've been very productive.

Even if I get diagnosed and get a prescription, I would still take these supplements as they support the core problem: low dopamine, low acetylcholine. Eat well, exercise too.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#208

Post by access_patterns »

screye wrote: post #195

Can someone comment on whether ADHD medication leads to 'loss' of the unfiltered imagination that I have come to associate with my perpetually distracted self ? A friend on ADHD meds told me that it feels like trading unbridled creativity for stability. He found it to be an essential drug for functioning, but I got a sense that it involved losing something really central to your sense of self. Almost like being made…

I'm 24, and started on meds about six months ago. My experience with the double-edged sword sounds similar to your own.

I had the same concerns, but I found them to be unwarranted; there was no 'trade'. For me, it's more like being given access to a dial to control the speed of all the scattered thoughts flying around in my head. I can space out and get distracted just as effectively as I do without meds, but when I need to focus, I can nudge that dial. Focus is an active process, and it's one that I maintain control over.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#209

Post by CodeMage »

ALittleLight wrote: post #200
CodeMage wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already expressed what I object to: that it's a pithy, kneejerk, judgmental trope-parroting that does more to stigmatize the majority who want to help their kids, than to help combat the abuse perpetrated by the minority of bad parents. It is remarkably difficult to find any figures even estimating the overdiagnosis and overmedication rates for ADHD. Most of the talk around this issue tends to make a big deal ou…

To me you're coming across as defensive when you make these insults and assert that I'm ignorant and don't know what I'm talking about (when, ironically, you have no way of knowing and are therefore ignorant to my level of exposure to the topic). I understand being defensive - you've made a significant decision about your child's health and I hope for your, and his, sake that it's the correct one. Your defensiveness…

If I'm coming across as defensive, then I haven't been clear enough. I'm not defensive, I'm furious but I'm trying to channel it into rational discourse. There's nothing "defensive" about wanting to stop the propagation of this trope.

And yes, it's a trope. I said very clearly that this is not about rising rates of ADHD diagnoses and medication. The trope I'm referring to is the tendency to not only jump to a conclusion that it means we have an overdiagnosis crisis, but to present that conclusion as a fact and a significant problem.

The reason why I'm furious about it is because this narrative has been pushed for years and it has a negative impact on those of us who wish to help our children. In my personal case, it created a strong urge to avoid addressing the issue and just hope it would go away with "better parenting". If it hadn't been for the stigma of "you just want to drug your kids into submission", I would have started helping my kid earlier -- not with medication, but by finding a psychologist to help us.

Again, the focus on "school is boring and kids misbehave, so they get drugged" is too narrow and damaging to those who are affected by ADHD. Imagine being interested in many things, but not being able to advance in any of them beyond initial interest because your brain doesn't let you overcome simple obstacles that require concentration and it only lets you do so if you become somewhat obsessed by a particular random thing it settled on.

Yes, the study I (belatedly) linked in my previous post does indicate that there might be some overdiagnosis and overmedication of milder ADHD cases. And yes, that's something that we need to be aware of and work to improve.

I'm not objecting to raising that awareness. I'm objecting to the utterly irresponsible and damaging way to do so.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#210

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

tjridesbikes wrote: post #135

Anecdata, but I've been on methylphenidate (Concerta) since age 7, and holy cow has it impacted my life in an insanely positive way. 21 years later, I'm still on Concerta, but excelling in my career, spending meaningful time with friends, family, and hobbies, and generally pretty happy with myself. When I tried dropping the meds in college, my life basically fell apart in a matter of months. My then-girlfriend now-wi…

Opposite here - only have been taking medication for several years and growing up had one of those parents fearful of “drugging” but eager to punish and berate for crappy performance.

I’ve only just finally started actually fulfilling my potential and reading your comment fills me with the regret that things were not different for me…

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