201–210 of 238 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a student sidegig you can easily just found a small businesses for like 35 EUR and do business. There’s also GbRs that can theoretically be formed on a paper towel. Thought, it will probably not be easy to raise money this way.
.. and you are personally liable for anything damages caused by the business.
This issue wasn't about starting a startup in Germany as a GmbH, though. The issue was "flipping" that GmbH into a Delaware C-Corp, by request of YCombinator.
Wasn’t the whole first part about how annoying it was to create a startup in Germany, and what he learned in the second part made him realise he shouldn’t have even bothered in the first place (regardless of whether or not YC would eventually be involved)? That was how I interpreted it anyway.
And all the problems the author ran into sound very much like somebody just winging it, rather than investing a day or so getting informed on the available options and alternatives, and their implications.
And if investing a day into informing yourself about (1) incorporating and (2) its implications is too much to ask, then I honestly don't know whether a startup would be the right thing for the author in the first place.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see. But this sounds like his/her office made a mistake in calculating the fee, but let's say this far away from "ripping off" and can be cleared in one telephone call.
That was not my impression. I asked them about the fee, they claimed that it's legal/required by law. Then I asked them again (in a more detailed manner, i.e. explaining my thinking why there shouldn't be a fee), they still upheld that it's legal, and then I send them the court rulings and suddenly they had "forgotten" about that.
Thanks for the post. Reading this made me quite angry - politicians here in Germany always talk out of their asses about improving the situation for startups, but when it comes to removing these ridiculous administrative hurdles, absolutely nothing happens. In Austria, where I live, it's even worse. It's not even possible to start a limited liability company without at least 35k starting capital in the bank.
"Digitalstaat" my ass. It's IMPOSSIBLE to found even this simplest of limited liability companies without dozens of forms. The politicians ARE really talking out of their ass.
Expect the founding of an UG to cost not only two months, but 1500€ in the first year, and 1000€ each following year. Oh, and your nerves, because at some point in the process will the bureaucratic machine fuck up and/or delay.
The same goes for the scammers, which the German "Rechtsstaat", as it likes to call itself appears to be completely helpless against for decades.
My advice, if you've never founded an UG/GmbH before, don't do it alone. Find a cofounder who can care about all this bullshit so you can focus on the actual product and business. (Or don't found in Germany at all)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course, but not why it needs 25k in reserves/assets. In many other countries it's very cheap and simple. In the UK where we did it, it took half an hour, we did it online in an hour and we needed about £20 all-in to get incorporated and set up a business bank account.
As it was pointed out multiple times, 25k are not needed in capital.
The point is, whether it's 25k or 12.5k, and whether it's reserves or founding capital, share capital, equipments, assets, savings or whatever else, or whether it's 1 EUR as in the case of a UG but you have to save 25% of profits until you hit 25k - it's all still a significant barrier to forming an LLC that other countries have proven is unnecessary. That, along with paperwork, high costs, notary requirements, slow timescales and a time consuming dissolution process.
There are a bunch of other countries within the EU that make the process much quicker, simpler and cheaper, so it's hard to see what reason one would have to bother with the German system.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As it was pointed out multiple times, 25k are not needed in capital.
Or assets, or equipment or whatever. You need quite a bit of money to put into it that you won't necessarily get back if it fails. The point is, whether it's 25k or 12.5k, and whether it's reserves or founding capital, share capital, equipments, assets, savings or whatever else, or whether it's 1 EUR as in the case of a UG but you have to save 25% of profits until you hit 25k - it's all still a significant barrier to…
For all the other reasons, you'd have to ask the Berlin start-up scene.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is stupidly easy to create a GmbH or UG, especially the UG. Also very cheap, if you push it two days are enough, will cost you around 100 bucks. And if you just want to run a side business, one that doesn't have the potential to ruin you, just run it as an independent income. You can even have your employees participate in your GmbH, either in enquity or profit. That most German start-ups don't simply means they w…
If you need a new GmbH really fast you can just buy one. There are companies and lawyers that are specialized in this kind of business and they keep a pool of registered GmbHs for founders to buy. If you look up GmbHs in the central registry (Handelsregister) you will notice that many of them were founded by law firms and sold after a couple of months to the real founders. This is true even for (now) bigger and reput…
If you need to incorporate and have money, you don't need to wait to start doing business.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anecdotally, I've also never encountered as many scummy and cheating companies and GmbHs as in Germany. Compared to where?
Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wasn’t the whole first part about how annoying it was to create a startup in Germany, and what he learned in the second part made him realise he shouldn’t have even bothered in the first place (regardless of whether or not YC would eventually be involved)? That was how I interpreted it anyway.
The first part was annoyance at becoming a company in general. What annoyed the author, like figuring out how to structure ownership, would be annoying anywhere . And all the problems the author ran into sound very much like somebody just winging it, rather than investing a day or so getting informed on the available options and alternatives, and their implications. And if investing a day into informing yourself abou…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Well, no initial balance sheet required The law very clearly disagrees with you: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/hgb/__242.html > And your deadlines are longer than if you eork with a registered tax advisor. True. If you're paying a tax advisor, you don't really care about the deadlines and all the paperwork, anyway, though. You just pay people to do all that for you.
I had two companies, GmbH (no merged and disolved) and a dormant UG. Never filed an initial balance sheet for either.