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The Xinjiang Police Files

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Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#201

Post by slibhb »

DoughnutHole wrote: post #182
rayiner wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the constant outrage over Palestine is driven more by hatred of Israel than concern about Palestinians. Antisemitism is universal in the Muslim world,[1] not so with anti-Sino sentiment. Note that the wealthy Arab states surrounding Palestine aren’t leaping to admit refugees from Palestine. [1] I think my home country of Bangladesh is thousands of miles away from any significant population of Jews. Y…

Well the wealthy Arab states aren't the ones surrounding Palestine - the poor countries that do surround Palestine have taken in an enormous number of refugees - there are 2 million Palestinians in Jordan, nearly as many as there are in Palestine, the vast majority of which descend from those that fled Palestine between '47 and '67. Of the states actually bordering Israel and Palestine, Egypt is really the only one t…

Before 1967, Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. They administrated those territories in a far worse manner than the Israelis currently do.

The relationship between Egypt and especially Jordan and the Palestinians is extremely complicated. Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#202

Post by skitout »

rayiner wrote: post #159
dr_faustus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.

In my experience the constant outrage over Palestine is driven more by hatred of Israel than concern about Palestinians. Antisemitism is universal in the Muslim world,[1] not so with anti-Sino sentiment. Note that the wealthy Arab states surrounding Palestine aren’t leaping to admit refugees from Palestine. [1] I think my home country of Bangladesh is thousands of miles away from any significant population of Jews. Y…

Your comment could be read like: Muslim people "support" Palestinians because they are antisemitic... I mostly disagree.

1) While antisemitism was prevalent all over (including in Muslim countries) the world before Israel existed, we've seen a shift in the Arabic world, and more generally in the Muslim population, after the creation of Israel, and the series of conflicts ensuing. e.g. Before the creation of Israel Jewish and Muslim lived in relative peace together in Morocco. So a case could be made that antisemitism is ALSO driven by how Israel was created and behaved (and let be clear, I condemn antisemitism).

2) Jerusalem is an holly city of Islam (and of Christian), so of course, any big thing happening there against Muslim bear much more weight ! This point is not necessity linked to antisemitism.

3) Israel became also the symbol of "Western imperialism" and of the humiliation of third word, and particularly of Muslims. That is a "Western country" that is seen as having stole the land of people and evicted 700.000 people. That is a country that continues colonization, evictions and repression... while being very actively supported for decades by US. This symbolic weight also explain why such attention.

4) And that is an old story, with many episodes. Just like a good TV show (with all the element above), when you've been exposed to many episodes, you are more keen to see the new episodes...

-

DoughnutHole answered you about the refugees. Some countries also support(ed) financially Palestine and Palestinians (in Palestine or refugees).

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#204

Post by ashwagary »

falsepromises wrote: post #166
skitout wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been several (terrorist) attacks against Chinese civilians in Xinjiang over the years. The perpetrators have been lone wolfs, and people part of organized groups. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict Personally I think that attack on civilians cannot justify the actions of Chinese state or of the Israeli state (massive repression against civilians and continued colonization). And…

Yeah, a lot of the issues have to do with the systemic denial of resources and oppression in the region. For the most part like in most of Mainland China, the goal of the CCP has been to convert the local ethnic groups and populations to a singular Han identity. Accompanying this being that they both actively send people from the Mainland over to take over jobs of the local inhabitants it's pretty clear why a lot of…

>a lot of the issues have to do with the systemic denial of resources and oppression

How do you explain Chinese Uyghurs committing terrorist acts in the rest of Asia outside of China?

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#205

Post by simonh »

grapeskin wrote: post #188
simonh wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation for indigenous people in the USA is awful, sure, but it's not even remotely equivalent. The tribes determine who is or isn't a tribal member. In China the state determines such things and are actively packing the minorities with Han.

The one drop rule also applies to black, Hispanic, and Asian people.

In fact it's mainly simply a matter of identification, it's extremely rare for anyone's ethnicity to be investigated or challenged officially. Where it does matter is in public life, particularly politics and when people purport to represent a group or ethnicity. In the US this undergoes considerable public scrutiny and if a minority group thinks someone is trying to usurp their identity or represent them inappropriately they tend to be very vocal about it and exert considerable pressure to ensure that representation is genuine.

Not so much in China.

Clearly representation and biases based on ethnicity in the US and west in general is a significant issue. There are many injustices. Nevertheless I think it's a bit distasteful to create false equivalences which trivialises or normalise the systematic oppression and cultural erasure that's currently succeeding at wiping out Uighur identity.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#206

Post by skitout »

slibhb wrote: post #201
DoughnutHole wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the wealthy Arab states aren't the ones surrounding Palestine - the poor countries that do surround Palestine have taken in an enormous number of refugees - there are 2 million Palestinians in Jordan, nearly as many as there are in Palestine, the vast majority of which descend from those that fled Palestine between '47 and '67. Of the states actually bordering Israel and Palestine, Egypt is really the only one t…

Before 1967, Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. They administrated those territories in a far worse manner than the Israelis currently do. The relationship between Egypt and especially Jordan and the Palestinians is extremely complicated. Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

" They administrated those territories in a far worse manner than the Israelis currently do."

Currently Gaza is under partial blockade by Israelis, with extreme consequences on the population and the economy. And colonization continues on west bank, with many many check points... While heavy critics can certainly be made against administration of those territories by Egypt and Jordan, arguments would be welcome to support your view.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#207

Post by fps_doug »

throwaway290 wrote: post #198
fps_doug wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't believe it because I'm missing context" is a weak argument to make. The tweets read like the author isn't a native English speaker. The traditional vs. simplified characters accusation should be relatively easy to confirm if you want to put in at least a little effort. Looking up characters as someone who isn't familiar with them at all might be cumbersome but is absolutely possible. But then again you wonde…

It's very simple: 1) software renders not Unicode characters but font glyphs 2) which font glyphs are chosen depends on many factors like installed fonts, OS, language/region settings, and so on 3) people author (and read) characters by how they look on their systems, what codepoints are used is not on anyone's mind A differently configured system can uncover incorrect codepoint choices or rendering differences acros…

That happens if you have no language hints, or the wrong one, e.g. posting in Simplified Chinese on a Taiwanese website. If this was written in something like MSWord by CCP officials, it should have the proper language hint, so render properly on any OS newer than XP.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#208

Post by Sporktacular »

thriftwy wrote: post #175
watwut wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. Not starting that war in the first place would be even better. > Stopping the violence is a good thing. Not committing it in the first place is even better.

It is a region of Russia and it is practically landlocked from all sides by other Russia, and also it seems to have started the war by attacking Dagestan (also in Russia). So even comparing it to Xinjiang, which China could plausible give away, Russia could not get rid of Chechnya even of it wanted. What other outcome would you expect? But, that has ended 15 years ago, by now.

Give away? Give to who? What are you talking about?

You're pivoting constantly and not defending your arguments. Why should anyone take your own words more seriously than you do?

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#209

Post by thriftwy »

Sporktacular wrote: post #208
thriftwy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a region of Russia and it is practically landlocked from all sides by other Russia, and also it seems to have started the war by attacking Dagestan (also in Russia). So even comparing it to Xinjiang, which China could plausible give away, Russia could not get rid of Chechnya even of it wanted. What other outcome would you expect? But, that has ended 15 years ago, by now.

Give away? Give to who? What are you talking about? You're pivoting constantly and not defending your arguments. Why should anyone take your own words more seriously than you do?

I am defending my arguments.

"treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia" is pure BS FUD accusations. Chechens are mostly treating themselves in the last 15 years. And it turns out relatively benign, compared to stuff like ISIS, Afghanistan, Xinjiang, Lybia, Israel, Yemen.

And that's the context of early XXI century, there's really no other one. You're not the World Police to judge others, likely you are a much worse perpetrator yourself.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#210

Post by Sporktacular »

slibhb wrote: post #201
DoughnutHole wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the wealthy Arab states aren't the ones surrounding Palestine - the poor countries that do surround Palestine have taken in an enormous number of refugees - there are 2 million Palestinians in Jordan, nearly as many as there are in Palestine, the vast majority of which descend from those that fled Palestine between '47 and '67. Of the states actually bordering Israel and Palestine, Egypt is really the only one t…

Before 1967, Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. They administrated those territories in a far worse manner than the Israelis currently do. The relationship between Egypt and especially Jordan and the Palestinians is extremely complicated. Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

But the topic (of this thread anyway) is Palestine in general, not the West Bank and Gaza specifically.
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