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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#201

Post by minimoose »

pmoriarty wrote: post #170
danuker wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've experienced all these interpersonal deficits after meditating seriously 2 hours every day for 2 years straight. Wow! I haven't meditated before. That sounds like a lot of time. Do you still meditate? What does it offer you? Has it offered you what you expected?

"Do you still meditate? What does it offer you? Has it offered you what you expected?" I'm not the OP, but after I practiced meditation intensely for a few months I found two huge benefits: First: before I meditated I used to get annoyed and bored when I had to do chores like washing the dishes or standing in line. But after meditating for a while, when I had to do such a chore I'd just focus on my breath and I'd no…

I've had the same experience, but using the sauna regularly has helped spark resistance to the mundane.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#202

Post by and0 »

Adraghast wrote: post #21

This would line up with a broader trend I've noticed and would be interested in reading more about: the use of pop psychology to justify antisocial behavior. Ten years ago, telling a distressed friend you don't feel like hearing about their problems would be incredibly rude. Now you can find NYT articles explaining how to couch the same sentiment in more acceptable terms like, "I don't have the bandwidth to perform t…

I've noticed this as well. There's a really great, growing trend of people understanding abusive behaviors and setting boundaries, which I think is fantastic. People should always stand up for themselves! But too far and you become like you've described.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#203

Post by tisdy-01 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #129
jackdawed wrote: post #82

This is a forefront issue that Buddhism tries to address, both modern pragmatic Buddhism and fundamentalist Buddhism. It's why right speech, right action, and morals is one of the first things they drill into you. Most pragmatic practitioners will refuse to teach you if you indicate that you have some mental problems or moral deficiencies that should be addressed by a professional first, as mindfulness may end up doi…

It's interesting that Western Christianity has pretty much the same underlying message - you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. (This might be why Stoicism with its meditative and contemplative traditions, and a similar focus on divinely-inspired "right/moral action" was a key ally of early Christianity.) Islam of course has its own Sufi traditions, the Biblical prophe…

> you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals.

This is almost the opposite of Christianity, depending on what you mean by "right morals". Christianity says you simply can't reach salvation and be with God unless you are flawless, which is humanly impossible, so unless God does something... hence Christ.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#204

Post by sundvor »

serf wrote: post #69
_y5hn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a petty concern for someone who visits world leaders and maintain international relations at that level. It could be a conversation-starter in more unofficial moments, for fun (spiritual people are allowed 1 teaspoon of fun each day!) or just being practical. These kinds of topics are unfortunately what the focus many will remain at.

>or just being practical generally speaking -- rolex collections don't spring up from practical reasons -- and he's known to purposely use cheap watch bands and flip the watch faces towards his wrists in an effort to hide them from view.. https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/stories-en/personalit...

Great article, thanks. Can't fault a man for having a passion for mechanical watches, especially when as the article states he has disassembled / assembled some of them. I can only begin to imagine the fine motor and mental control required.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#205

Post by felipeerias »

zozbot234 wrote: post #50
rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #36

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

It's not like the West doesn't have its own meditative and contemplative traditions. The Cynics and Stoics of the Classical world could have very diverse attitudes to wealth and material comforts, with the former being quite more disdainful of them and quite literally "living like dogs". We see the same thing in Western ascetic monasticism later on - some Western monks and nuns focus on helping others and doing their…

There's a passage by Chesterton where he jokes that many of his contemporaries had simply become bored with Christianity and would happily embrace it again if it came wrapped in the exotic garbs of a far away land.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#206

Post by lukasb »

neltnerb wrote: post #27
lukasb wrote: post #4

Mindfulness and compassion are often talked of as "two wings of a bird" by dharma teachers - mindfulness doesn't automatically translate to compassion. This sutta makes the same point: Maṇibhadda Sutta (SN 10:4) On one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Magadhans at the Jewel-stand Shrine, the haunt of the yakkha-spirit, Maṇibhadda [Auspicious Jewel]. Then Maṇibhadda the yakkha-spirit went to the Blessed…

My issue with this specific concept is that lots and lots of people are lazy and instead of doing compassionate things, they "feel compassion" as a generic emotion through the use of meditation. I studied Buddhism quite a while pretty seriously, and I know that a lot of the meditations involve practicing loving yourself, and your friends, family, community, and that these feelings of love are a core thing to have in…

Yeah fair. I asked a teacher once, "seems like Buddhists don't have the best record at service, should I be concerned about that?" and he just replied "yes."

That said, I wouldn't be dismissive about people learning to forgive themselves for their flaws ...

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#207

Post by 99_00 »

Many people need to be more selfish. I see more people pleasers than selfish assholes

They would benefit from putting their own sleep, healthy eating, and exercise ahead of others needs.

Paradoxically this will enable them to be in a better position to help others and be in less need of help.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#208

Post by noufalibrahim »

There are a lot of traditional religious practices that have been sanitised for modern consumption and marketed to the modern professional. The general vibe i get from these people is that these practices are useful inspite of the religion and need to be liberated.

Sam Harris who does this with meditation etc. says that we don't have "Christian science" because science is true and useful regardless of where it comes from and that "Christian" is not relevant.

I've held this to be short sighted. Useless at best. Socially and personally damaging at worst. This just seems to be the latest manifestation.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#209

Post by zmgsabst »

stevebmark wrote: post #198
zmgsabst wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must have different teachers, as I heard it differently: No Self is the path to Intentional Self. The goal isn’t the deconstruction of the self, but rather, that through the deconstruction of the self we can act from a place of intention rather than bias and preconceived notions. And in doing so, no longer engage in the random suffering that was thrust upon us — but the intentional suffering that comes from our ch…

There is no choice. There is no intention. There is no you.

Like I said, you seem trapped in a poor vision of what enlightenment means — the goal isn’t to burn down your inner garden, but to tend it.

:)

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#210

Post by ramraj07 »

randomsearch wrote: post #106
ramraj07 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a week in Denver and boulder and continuously got the eerie vibe that every person I met who moved there, is an example of the most self centered person I would have met in any other situation elsewhere. I suppose the type of young person who’d move to CO “for the outdoors” is gonna select for the trend. Everything, including the assholish cycling, was indicative of that. Noped out of that place for this reas…

Could you expand on the “for the outdoors” comment and explain why those people are self centred? Assuming this must be an American cultural thing

Until I went to Colorado my only experience with people “into the outdoors” was in Canada (many from France) and they were some of the nicest, most considerate people I’ve ever met. But whatever I saw in Colorado (and to an extent in San Diego) has led me to believe that people who do move to these places in the US tend to be self centered, just my observation. Probably merely a correlation with deeper connections than causation.
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