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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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201–210 of 359 posts

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#201
post #9

Medicated AD(H)D of Hacker News, did your medication (please specify) influence your personality? If so how?

Daily 20 hour water (& salt) fasting reduced my desire to jump between tasks. Less scatter-brained too. My thoughts stay on rails longer. Didn't change my diet much; I don't eat many refined foods or carbs other than occasional bread. Years ago in college I was prescribed Adderall but it didn't make me focus more. It made me compulsively clean my apartment, masturbate, tweak out, and occasionally be extremely paranoi…

Sounds like you may have had too high a dose, or too quickly absorbed of a dose. That's more or less what I feel like in the 30-40mg range, which is about middle of the road for Adderall XR. The problem with XR is for some folks, it isn't extended release at all, it's just two timed dumps of immediate release.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High five, fellow PhD dropout. :( > The coping mechanisms that had served me reasonably well during my young adulthood suddenly stopped working during the pandemic. So, I became unable to motivate myself to a deadline, which had generally been a powerful force to motivate my attention and efforts. I have experienced the exact same situation (but with work)... always been motivated by well-planned deadlines, but it ju…

> High five, fellow PhD dropout. :( High five back to you. No shame in that game. I’m mostly just glad to have learned that my issues weren’t just because I was “lazy” but because my brain just doesn’t work that way. I learned something about myself, even if it cost me a few years to learn it! And I wish you all the best. When those coping mechanisms run out, they run out hard . My wife is an attorney, and one of her…

> When those coping mechanisms run out, they run out hard

Oh, don't I know it.

Have switched career paths a few times because of it. About 4-5 years to ride the wave up before the crash.

Thankful for MY partner... because she's an absolute harbour in the storm. All the executive function I lack, and then more to spare. Otherwise I'd probably be homeless, imprisoned or dead.

Think I am finally dealing with it properly.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#203
post #166
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please stop with the "candy" trope? Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances. They can only be prescribed as by registered psychiatrists as part of ongoing treatment with patient monitoring. There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. Don't get medical advice from TikTok, and don't form an opinion of a mental disorde…

The person you are replying to is well aware that it's a bad thing, that's why they pointed it out.

Maybe they have a hard time paying attention to the text? Or does ADD affect reading? I'm not really sure how it works

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#204
post #19

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

Personally I don't like seeing it as a regular illness. Yes it's a complication to how society wants people to function. Work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Go to school 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Be productive in that time frame. Keep focus on given tasks. You can take medication to adhere to these artificial expectations on how an individual should function within society. Or you can live in a way that matches your…

I generally agree with you. But on the other hand, my ADHD makes me way less reliable as an employee, a spouse, and a friend. I’m not sure it’s really right for me to expect people to continually bend over backwards to accommodate my disorder. My ADHD is an illness, and I don’t think that’s just because I’m expected to adhere to the norms of a neurotypical society. A world run according to ADHD norms would be an absolute nightmare to live in! I perhaps wish there was a wider and more correct understanding of the disorder (i.e., it doesn’t just affect children, it’s not only an attentional disorder, etc.), but I’m not particularly bothered by other people expecting me to adhere to social norms of timeliness, behavior, and so forth.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and bein…

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC websit…

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming?

Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spectrum as being disabled. I don't disagree the reason ADHD is considered so serious is cultural, but I find the culture to be incredibly condescending.

For context, Russell A Barkley has been a paid consultant for a large number of pharmaceutical companies. He takes the position that ADHD is akin to a physical handicap and Ritalin is akin to a wheelchair, espousing how incredibly treatable of a disorder ADHD is. I don't agree with him very much because I've found the wheelchair to have a surprising amount of side effects while not being entirely effective. It feels more like a wheelchair I sit in to please others which ruins my own health. I have watched all of Russell Barkley's videos, and took him seriously enough to try everything he advised (Which is a LOT and I had to fight with psychs to try some of it), and it didn't work. Overall, I've mostly found myself to be pretty successful without using any sort of pharmacological treatment, and thus I'm not very attached to the "ADHD as a disorder" narrative and honestly feel like it's mostly done me a disservice.

I also don't really feel it's something I have to accept due to it being scientific fact, as the sheer instability of ADHD diagnostic rates makes me sceptical scientists really have that firm of a grasp on the disorder, the differences in how people react to medication is pretty much completely unexplained by the current scientific theories, and the current scientific theories don't really explain that well why people without ADHD seem to have performance enhancing benefits from the drugs [2]. Which makes me wonder if we're "treating" ADHD, or if we're just letting people with ADHD dope while not allowing others to. To me, I suspect ADHD is an oversimplification of a more complex underlying reality, similar to IBS. I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High five, fellow PhD dropout. :( High five back to you. No shame in that game. I’m mostly just glad to have learned that my issues weren’t just because I was “lazy” but because my brain just doesn’t work that way. I learned something about myself, even if it cost me a few years to learn it! And I wish you all the best. When those coping mechanisms run out, they run out hard . My wife is an attorney, and one of her…

> When those coping mechanisms run out, they run out hard Oh, don't I know it. Have switched career paths a few times because of it. About 4-5 years to ride the wave up before the crash. Thankful for MY partner... because she's an absolute harbour in the storm. All the executive function I lack, and then more to spare. Otherwise I'd probably be homeless, imprisoned or dead. Think I am finally dealing with it properly…

I wish you all the best on the journey. It’s a hard-as-hell place to be in, but I’m glad you have someone who can balance things out. (I’m fortunate to have the same!) But it’s still a path you have to figure out on your own, and I’m glad you’re in a good place with it now.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#207

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

Contrary to the depiction above it remains as far as I know exceptionally difficult to acquire adhd treating medication; they’re almost all controlled substances, heavily regulated and consumption tightly monitored.

I imagine it depends on where you live, but in the US, it is insane how easy it is to get prescribed. Try to do it yourself, it takes literally a 10-minute phone call and you'll have a script at your local pharmacy -- https://www.donefirst.com/

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#208
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adderall has been one of the most popular recreational drugs since the 01960s, despite causing multi-organ failure in common recreational doses, which are higher than the therapeutic doses. If it didn't work on neurotypical brains, it wouldn't be popular.

I think you're purposefully misrepresenting what "works" means in this context. ADHD people can think a lot more clearly with it. The effect of stimulants is completely different on a brain like ours compared to a normal person as it helps regulates brain function in a way that ours can't. For normal people it just gets you euphoric and agitated, we get CALMER cause we live in a state of constant agitation.

It's not completely different or even mostly different. Getting euphoric and agitated happens with doses an order of magnitude higher than therapeutic doses. Low-dose Adderall has been used to help neurotypical people focus for at least a century, though not of course by that name.

Your vicious, baseless attack on my integrity has no place here. Withdraw it immediately.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#209
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

I understand why you're asking. I have often felt that way myself and it's why I put off getting treatment for so long. I was worried I would just end up being some 30 year old tech dude addicted to adderall who didn't actually need it. I want to address those questions in others since getting a diagnosis was so helpful for me. I want to educate around it. The short answer is that I was diagnosed independently by 2 p…

> Since starting: I'm less angry. I'm less annoyed. I have the ability to listen to my spouse talk to me. I'm not jittery or jumpy any more.

THIS! Absolutely this.

Bit crazy that these are also the symptoms of someone on withdrawal from amphetamines and other stimulants†, huh?

But wait a sec... we had these before going anywhere near medication?

Could it possibly be we've been living a life of dopamine withdrawal?

† I was going to say "amphetamine addiction" but stopped myself... a significant number of these poor folk are self-medicating to escape the constant agony of their inner turmoil. They just couldn't get what they needed under the supervision of modern medicine, and micro-dose their intake so it delivers the beneficial effects and minimises the side-effect.

edit: formatting

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#210

As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. Especially the hyper focus and feeling superior to people staring out the window or failing to heads-down work for several hours straight. Yes you can hyperfocus even without stimulants, but the real superpower is having access to them so you can channel that consistently. I personally…

Thanks for sharing, I really appreciated the last half. Good thoughts generally One downside I think after reading here is that there is some wacko in the first half of the post that I feel compelled to comment on a few things. Hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD proper. Stimulants can also make you feel hyperfocused. However, the general reported effects of stimulants are a feeling of "normalcy", not hyperfocus as a res…

According to the DSM, the way you get identified as having ADHD is by reporting persistent executive function (esp. for inattentive type) and/or impulsivity-hyperactivity problems [0]. Most people grow out of the H-type symptoms as they mature but I is more persistent and suspected to be less diagnosed[1]. What I mean is that anybody who thinks they have executive function problems likely does.

Yeah, hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD proper. But if you're unmedicated, for most people it's not something you can control - if you could, it wouldn't really be a disorder at all. I was responding specifically to the following paragraph:

"Until I got to college I didn't understand how people could spend hours a day “studying”. When I got there I found out. When my first-year hallmates were “studying” they were looking out the window, playing with their pencils, talking to their roommates, all sorts of stuff that wasn't studying. When I needed to study I would hide somewhere and study. I think the ability to focus on just one thing for a few hours at a time is a great gift that ADD has given me."

That's pretty much exactly what it feels like to take adderall. For me taking stimulants like adderall allows me to force focus even on stuff I don't care much about/even when I don't normally feel like it. And yes, this is exactly the way people without ADHD feel too (as you mention - even if you don't have ADHD, you can still focus on-task for a long time and feel smart as fuck).

What you mention about dopaminergic stimulants only actually benefitting people with ADHD is likely an oversimplification. To meet the DSM criteria (and thus, in most clinical settings, to get diagnosed with ADHD-I) you just need persistent problems focusing. Hence my overall point that anybody that thinks they have trouble focusing should be able to just take adderall. ADHD is a spectrum and not a binary condition anyway. You can meet 4 DSM criteria and remain untreated, or meet 5 DSM criteria and take 60mg of amphetamine every day.

The "propaganda" is that ADHD is this cut-and-dry binary condition where people with ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants totally don't get high (go on /r/ADHD and read any post about someone taking medicine for the first time), hyperfocus/tunnel-vision (ie "bad hyperfocus"), chatty, irritiable, or have trouble sleeping. And conversely that people without ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants will only masturbate, stay up late, dance at a club, or take apart their neighbor's lawnmower. When in reality this is mostly set, setting, conditioning, dose, habits, tolerance, dose metering, and expectations.

And as a consequence of this propaganda, mostly because some people benefit a lot from taking dopaminergic stimulants but they also get you high and our society moralizes against that, plenty of people who don't meet the formal requirements for ADHD under the DSM, are subclinical or at the threshold of being clinical, can't afford a $100 copay every 2-4 weeks, or don't have the executive function to seek treatment remain untreated.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441936/

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