What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#201

Post by peanuty1 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #112

vasco wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a public website, there's no security check for "Is american, went to Stanford and lives in SF pulling 100k/yr". I know plenty of software developers that frequent this site and make around 20-30k a year in Europe.

to be fair a 30k job in Warsaw or Prague gets you a living standard you get for 100k in SF so that perception has always been skewed. When I for the first time saw what people in SF and America more broadly pay on rent, education, childcare and transport I had a culture shock The average rent for one bedroom apartment is 2.5k in SF, even in Berlin you're maybe paying 800 bucks.

No kidding, I see people posting pictures on Reddit of street food they bought in European countries like Europe for 1.50 euros that would easily cost 10 bucks + tips in the US.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodPorn/comments/thvk4e/a_casserol...

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#202

Post by rdiddly » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

rnikander wrote: post #124

abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

I mostly agree, although are Amazon warehouses in the most expensive cities? My understanding was that they were big and therefore located in spread-out suburban food-deserts poorly served by public transit, where land is cheap and available, and the zoning is lax if you're building an Amazon warehouse and "bringing jobs" but strangely prohibitive if you're thinking of building apartments.

Anyway just penciling out the math, a $15/hr wage ($31K/yr) puts you in the 12% federal tax bracket and the 4% California (for example) state tax bracket. So your take-home would be $15/hr x 2080 hrs/yr x (1 - 0.12 - 0.04) = $26.2K/yr. So at that point rent ($1K/mo = $12K/year) is a good 45% of your take-home pay, and you've got $14.2K left to pay food, utilities, transportation, and (hopefully not) healthcare. It can be done. Each thing tends to trade off with other things. For example, to avoid healthcare expenses you'll want to stay healthy, eating healthy food for example. But healthy food is expensive, and probably not located close by your shitty part of town, so you'll be either driving (expensive and to be avoided) or spending extra time on public transit, or risking a catastrophic healthcare expense by biking there (in America anyway), or just eating the regular ol' cheap food. Also, do not take on any dependents. Like I said, it can be done.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#203

Post by lettergram » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

abxytg wrote: post #102

mrjangles wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

> rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

You can get a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment where I live in a decent low crime location for $700-$1000. There’s an Amazon wear house up the street. It’s a city >250k people.

People around here make $40k on average and still go to sports games, bars, dancing, etc.

It depends where you live.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#204

Post by ng12 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #144

If you are $120k a year SE and play your cards right, you can sometimes maneuver into a situation where your coworkers aren’t just competent-on-average but actively bright, sometimes brilliant people. At $35k, usually you are trying to identify the one other person in the office who also got unlucky so you can be friends with someone who isn’t getting remarried a month after their fourth divorce. This can't be unders…

This reeks. There are a lot of good, honest, hardworking people out there without Bachelor's degrees.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#205

Post by nradov » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

How is insurance a scam?

And no one goes to jail for failure to pay property tax, unless there is some kind of egregious fraud involved. The tax authorities just put a lien on the property, and then seize it to sell at auction.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#206

Post by mepiethree » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

iamdbtoo wrote: post #160

rnikander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."

A home, yeah, not a home in downtown metros. My uncle is a teacher and owns two houses in rural Ohio with his wife, kid, and two dogs. Living the American dream.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#207

Post by bluetomcat » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:16 PM UTC

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

Let me give you a concrete non-US, Eastern European (Bulgarian) perspective on the scale of financial and career “shitness” that the majority of individuals, and even a sizable portion of the well-educated go through.

From my privileged position as a remotely working software engineer for a western company who resides in a middle-sized town, I am able to observe the daily hurdles and fears of my friends and relatives earning 10x less for a lot more stress and sweating. The typical clerical office job pays you something in the range of 350 to 450 euros. Renting a small, badly furnished and badly isolated communist-era flat costs you around 150 euros. Food isn’t cheap compared to the West and you would need at least 200 euros a month. Many working adults prefer to live under one roof with their parents in order to make ends meet. Starting a family is a risky affair. Dysfunctional families with 1 member working abroad in a wealthier EU country are quite common. That member often comes for a visit to attend a relative’s funeral or for Christmas. Most people drive a 20 year-old banger just to be able to go to work and it eats their full income. Just know this when complaining about your Walmart or Amazon US job.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#208

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:17 PM UTC

permalac wrote: post #46

woodruffw wrote: post #30

This was a great read. I think the true value of money is one of HN's biggest bubbles: the average person on here (but not all of us!) jumped right from their undergraduate career to making a six-figure salary in a city with lavish public amenities (by American standards). It's very easy to forget that the average American salary is less than half of that, and even that hides the number of people living well below th…

Sometimes I forget that those 6 figure jobs require one living in US, then I remember and I'm a bit happier with my not 6 figures job.

It depends quite a bit on location too. High COL cities you may as well halve the effective salary compared to generic Northeastern Suburb, even in a place like Princeton.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#209

Post by ctoth » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:17 PM UTC

hn_neverguess wrote: post #141

abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

> Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. What would you define as the bottom of the barrel then? There has to be a sensible threshold that delineates between 1) "I encountered a lot of bad luck but I am motivated and want to get myself out of this situation and 2) I simply don't care. Most of the physically able that fall under 1) can get a job at an Amazon warehouse. For those in poor health, I will agree…

> The national median rent was $1,792 last month, up 17% from a year ago, according to a report from Realtor.com. Rent for studio apartments, one bedrooms and two bedrooms all saw double-digit increases over the past year[0].

[0]: https://abc7.com/rent-prices-apartments-cost-of-realtorcom/1...

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#210

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #197

pc86 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world? Yes, they do. Read any thread on a vaguely left-leaning subreddit that even starts approaching discussions of renting, or landlords, or landlord-tenant relations, and you'll get flooded with comments so detached from reality it will stun you.

If you can’t afford to live in the city where you work then it’s pretty much the definition of “not a living wage.” Like are we really at the point where we’re totally fine with people commuting an hour one way every workday to a shitty minimum wage job instead of just building affordable modest housing reserved for people working in the city.

How? If you can travel back and forth and that makes it work, what is the problem? You can hate it, sure, but, at least where I live, people commute 3+ hours/day to make a nice living while living cheap. What is wrong with that?