Jewish problems • Hacker News Board

Re: Jewish problems

#201

Post by philwelch » Thu, Oct 13, 2011, 2:37 AM UTC

wnight wrote: post #199

philwelch wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one considers Taiwan a country, aside from a minority party in Taiwan that wants to declare independence from China but doesn't have the balls. The ROC considers Taiwan part of China. The PRC considers Taiwan part of China. The ROC and PRC are rival governments of this one China. The ROC controls Taiwan and a couple other islands, the PRC controls the rest. The one thing both states agree on is that Taiwan is not…

If I came to your house and showed you my gun, explained in loving detail how it worked, and informed you that I would brutally slay you if you disagreed with me - wouldn't you "agree" with anything I said? Because that's the only reason Taiwan could be said to agree with mainland China. Literally. As in, "If you formally declare independence we will kill you all in an invasion."

There has always been interest from the KMT of either recapturing the mainland or, when that became infeasible, peaceful reunification, though (according to some cousin comments) that's become a minority viewpoint and the entire question has been tabled for now.

Re: Jewish problems

#202

Post by xiaoma » Thu, Oct 13, 2011, 3:43 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #200

xiaoma wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean this to be offensive, but I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't have any familiarity with Taiwanese politics past what you've read in (usually poor) English media coverage. The 國民黨 (which you call the "Chinese" nationalist party) has been losing support in each election cycle since 2000. Also, I don't think it's an accident that Ma's impressive results in the last presidential election coinc…

You're probably right. De facto, Taiwan is a separate country right now. But they at least have to maintain the diplomatic fiction of being Chinese. You're right that I don't read Chinese or Taiwanese, and that I've never been to either country, and the only second-hand knowledge I have of the situation is decades old. I do know that the pan-blue coalition has abandoned the idea of unification for now. I also underst…

The pan-greens have been pushing ever closer towards independence for as long as I can remember. Obviously, they don't want a war, though. I think that's one of the major reasons why the name changes, proposals for changing the flag and the referendum issue carry such weight.

The referendum is an especially key piece of the strategy. They've been pushing for at least the past 7 years for public referendum on topics that are politically benign, at least on the surface. However, once there is a precedent of a referendum, the possibility exists for private citizens to start collecting the necessary signatures to put independence (or far more likely, baby steps towards independence) to a national vote. This sort of action would be very difficult politically for the PRC to punish.

Thus far, the Guomindang (aka KMT) has defeated referendum attempts by campaigning for a boycott of the referendum. Chen put two issues forward for referendum in 2004 (coinciding with the presidential election he narrowly won against a united Soong-KMT ticket after surviving a gunshot on the eve of the election). Voters agreed with both referendum questions by margins of over 90%, but the result was invalidated due to the final turnout being less than 50%.

To answer your question, I'd say that ethnic divisions between the Min and the mainlanders have died down. The issue is politics more than ethnicity. Traditionally, Hakkas have voted pan-blue, but that's much less consistent than it was before. At this point it's more of a division between the business people, those with ties to China or HK and the more local people.

Re: Jewish problems

#203

Post by wnight » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 7:36 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #201

wnight wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I came to your house and showed you my gun, explained in loving detail how it worked, and informed you that I would brutally slay you if you disagreed with me - wouldn't you "agree" with anything I said? Because that's the only reason Taiwan could be said to agree with mainland China. Literally. As in, "If you formally declare independence we will kill you all in an invasion."

There has always been interest from the KMT of either recapturing the mainland or, when that became infeasible, peaceful reunification, though (according to some cousin comments) that's become a minority viewpoint and the entire question has been tabled for now.

No, you're incredibly wrong.. The question hasn't been tabled - people who were having it were told they'd be murdered to the last if they didn't give in.

That's slightly different than "Nah, let's drop this pesky independence thing."

As far as recapturing the mainland, they're waiting for the mainlanders to throw off their illegal and oppressive government and welcome them back - if not as leaders, then as brothers.