Why I'll never use Affirm again • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#201

Post by sam0x17 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

radicaldreamer wrote: post #189

sam0x17 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're often very ill-equipped to deal with it and honestly it can hurt OR help you. My car loan processor accidentally double charged my $5k loan payoff (and it didn't bounce). Customer support told me the only way to get back my money quickly would be to report fraud through my bank on the 2nd charge, which I did and the 2nd charge was returned within 2 business days. Then several weeks later I get snail-mail conf…

This is like the mattress startup equivalent where if you try to return a mattress within their very generous trial period, you're often told to "keep it" and your purchase price is refunded.

Yeah, they literally told me if I didn't cash it their system was just going to keep sending checks every 90 days so I might as well cash it now.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#202

Post by Johnny555 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

aunty_helen wrote: post #188

Johnny555 wrote: post #73

There's a misconception that when you initiate a chargeback through your credit card, then you're good, you have your money and the merchant just has to eat it. But the chargeback doesn't erase your debt with the merchant, so they are free to collect that debt by other means, including sending it to a debt collector. Adding a third party like Affirm makes this messier - Affirm (presumably) fulfilled their service, th…

I've had a scungy online only travel agent try to pull this on me before. Their email to me saying they would be materially disadvantaged and blah blah blah got met with a response telling them to fuck off, stop emailing me and that I was reporting them to my bank for merchant fraud (which I did). Problem solved. It's all fun and games until they risk losing their ability to process credit cards.

If you can prove that you don't owe the debt, then you're fine. But you can't just do a chargeback and assume that you no longer have to pay -- just because the credit card company took your side doesn't mean that you don't actually owe the money.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#203

Post by 650REDHAIR » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #176

By a very cursory reading, if Affirm sends a negative report to a credit reporting agency, under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, they may be liable for damages and attorney’s fees. I would suggest writing a letter to Affirm’s legal department describing, very calmly, that Affirm has, apparently knowingly, threatened to send a report to a credit reporting agency despite the fact that Affirm is aware that no actual unpa…

When I run into situations like this where escalations aren’t going anywhere I have no trouble emailing specific people in high-level positions and CC’ing legal@, pr@, etc.

I don’t like doing it, but that works pretty well to get things moving.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#204

Post by ensignavenger » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #200

ensignavenger wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP could have initiated the chargeback through Affirm. I have used this process with Affirm before with much better luck. That being said, this does not excuse Affirms alleged poor customer service in this situation.

Affirm doesn't respond to emails and it's incredibly difficult to get anyone on the phone. So no, I don't think he could've charged back through affirm.

As I said, I have been through this exact situation with Affirm, and I did get my money back, so I know it is possible. I know others (the merchant I bought from went bankrupt) who did not get their money back- both who used Affirm and who used other mechanisms.

So I'm not saying whether or not OP would have gotten their money back had they went directly to Affirm- just that they should have given Affirm the chance. And none of this excuses Affirms allegedly bad customer service in this situation.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#205

Post by syedkarim » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:32 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #193

aunty_helen wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? How are you going to charge back against someone you didn't actually deal with financially? Your arguement is that Affirm should be able to clip the ticket and hold no responsibility for their client fufilling their duties? The charge back goes to who you paid for a service, if they need to pass it on, it's for them to do.

I cannot say anything wrt this specific case but it definitely depends. Where I'm from you'd basically make 2 contracts: one purchase agreement and then another one for the money, which is basically just a credit you've gotta pay back. So here you'd have to contact the seller, as the other party merely gave you a credit with hopefully good terms

Where are you from?

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#206

Post by jonny_eh » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:33 PM UTC

harles wrote: post #190

aembleton wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit card won't even let me initiate a chargeback until I've contacted the retailer.

OP contacted the retailer according to the story. Affirm is not a retailer.

They are the party receiving the chargeback though. It's just usually the retailer that you pay directly.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#207

Post by jonny_eh » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:34 PM UTC

pooper wrote: post #187

crisopolis wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it does read like the OP triggered the entire issue with payments using a chargeback originating from Chase, regardless of the support/platform issues with Affirm. I don't believe charging back the loan provider had any outcome to getting their product/service. Affirm was the wrong target.

I have done a charge back against PayPal and I stand by it. Basically, the vendor said it shipped me the product but never did. However, it gave PayPal a tracking number which was for something delivered to my town. I waited several months for the vendor to make things right. I asked PayPal and the person said there is nothing it can do. I did a charge back and the bank gave me my money back. So no, screw the vendors…

> I asked PayPal and the person said there is nothing it can do

That's PayPal's fault then. If they don't make things right, you're justified to hold them to account.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#208

Post by vultour » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #117

system2 wrote: post #91

Not victim blaming. Do not do payments. You either have the money or you don't. Save your money, buy it when you have it fully.

There is a reasonable case made upthread that if you pay it off on time, 0% interest for a few months, especially with inflation, can be a good financial move.

$300 over six weeks? Are you seriously suggesting this makes sense?

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#209

Post by jonny_eh » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:36 PM UTC

sam0x17 wrote: post #201

radicaldreamer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like the mattress startup equivalent where if you try to return a mattress within their very generous trial period, you're often told to "keep it" and your purchase price is refunded.

Yeah, they literally told me if I didn't cash it their system was just going to keep sending checks every 90 days so I might as well cash it now.

Why not wait a year and cash all the checks at once?

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#210

Post by vxNsr » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 9:37 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #19

cl0ckt0wer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's how they make money on 0% interest loans.

A buggy edge case on a tiny borrowed amount does not equate a business model of a multi-million dollar corporation. I've borrowed a total of almost $10,000 thru Affirm over the years and never had problems.

Can I ask why?

I don’t really understand what financially competent person is using affirm. Generally when it comes to buying small nonessentials, if you can’t afford to pay for it now, the prevailing wisdom is don’t find a way to buy it, just do without.

I’m also curious to hear what the experience is like when you need to return something that was bought with affirm? Do they cancel the loan quickly? It appears their cs dept is under trained and doesn’t have the tools necessary to do a good job.