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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#201

Post by Ekaros »

jaredklewis wrote: post #190
kitkat_new wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and renewable sources just can't provide the energy needed, as should be clear by now (although it was widely understood for the past 30 years at least). Renewable energy cost has fallen _a lot_, and Germany doesn't need nuclear power, IF it worked towards this goal: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/p...

The cost of renewables has fallen, but the cost of grid scale energy storage is still quite high. When the cost of the entire energy grid is viewed holistically (including required storage if using renewables) the cost of nuclear is competitive with renewables. Unless people are suddenly ok with blackouts, energy grid have to be robust. For renewables, that means having enough stores energy for times of decreased pro…

I have long considered that those buying their power from wind or solar should have remote relay switches in place that simply cut power when there is no solar or wind produced. Seems exactly what they are buying.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#202

Post by tarsinge »

Archelaos wrote: post #116
mikaeluman wrote: post #91

This has come up many times by now. But the supposed transition to renewable energy in Germany was merely a substitution of natural gas for nuclear power. What bothers me greatly is that Germany still has not come to turns with the fact that they need nuclear power. That is a long and costly investment to make and you need to start right away. LNG can only get you so far and renewable sources just can't provide the e…

Germany does not need nuclear power. This is far too expensive and dangerous. The future is renewable.

The rational short term future is renewable+nuclear. 100% renewable with intermittent sources with current tech is nearly impossible, and we need to act now. But don't take my word for it, that's what the IPCC says too. We need a low carbon non intermittent on demand energy. France proves everyday that works, now.

Don't fall for emotional reasonings, lobby or geopolitical narratives relayed by useful idiots NGO[0][1], in the coming years it is not renewables vs nuclear, it is renewables with nuclear, both against carbon emitting energies.

[0]https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18330/russia-funding-envi...

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Planet_Energy#Fossil_gas...

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#203

Post by AtlasBarfed »

This war has laid bare ten years of poor strategic planning with alternate energy and PHEV vehicles that would have neutered not just Russia, but Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and OPEC in general.

Oil supports totalitarian regimes, and degrades the integrity of democracies by supporting multinational petroleum companies that have a long and detailed list of dirty tricks to get what they want.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#204

Post by jerome-jh »

Although I agree Europe should take the risk to stop importing Russian gaz, I disagree refugees cost GDP points. Refugees are usually young and educated and this is another reason for them to be so much welcome in ageing countries. A few years ago Germany alone accepted almost one million syrian refugees, with no consequence on GDP. Europe as a whole can easily integrate the complete population of Ukraine. This is not a desirable outcome for this war though.

[*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Germany

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#205

Post by kavalg »

daneel_w wrote: post #104
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

But that's outside, not inside. Even an old building with lesser insulation and double-pane windows will hold a higher temperature when inhabited. Humans radiate more than a few watts. It's not comfortable, it's definitely a health concern, but it's still not 0°C. An anecdote from earlier this winter when the electricity prices peaked in Europe: my girlfriend and I live on 79 sqm in a modern apartment building with t…

Was that only your apartment or the whole building?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#206

Post by kavalg »

yayr wrote: post #42
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

interestingly, most split air conditioning units also have a heating function. Usually, they convert 1kwh of electric energy into 4-5 times the heat energy. Heating with electricity is therefore something quite achievable and sometimes even economical. At current German electricity prices of 0,33 EUR/kwh electricity heating is currently cheaper than gas heating (currently at 0,20 EUR/kwh for new contracts - was at 0,…

It is more like 2-3 times, depending on the outside temparature and degrading rapidly below e.g. -5C. Also, there is a noticeable effect on quality of life (noise, sometimes uncomfortable air currents).

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#207

Post by tempnow987 »

jacquesm wrote: post #195
tempnow987 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angela Merkal called this a destruction of national property, and they (CDU) extended life of plants 8-14 years. There were 17 plants at the time. Total production that has been shutdown (baseload power) is around 19,689MW now post fukushima. They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? It's kind of mind boggling how much was shut down - the problem this has caused for electrification in germany…

> They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? Germany has 5.3 GW of installed solar, how can you be off by a factor of 1200?

Sorry - yes, should be 5,800MW.

They produced 51Twh/365/24 = 5.8GW in avg delivery.

Nuclear generated it's power around the clock. I'm not sure solar is covering the evening peaks and the prices for electricity make going to things like heat pumps and electric dryers much more expensive than you'd expect in germany so the economic case for electrification in germany has started to run way way behind the case in other places that have kept nuclear in the mix.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#208

Post by kkfx »

Politics aside I'm curious to hear unreal environmentalist (I consider myself a "real" one) how they imaging the world.

For instance "gas pollute, stop ICEs vehicles!" fun to hear, who can provide new e.v. to replace gazillions of cars in a snap and provide the needed infrastructure to recharge them... Again for gas: I live in a "class A" home, so I'm all electric but how can a classic home be heated without gas or oil or wood? 30+kW power from heat pumps? Oh, of course we can build new homes, who pay? How this can be done in dense cities made of multi-apartment buildings?

Long story short: in 50+ years we can probably rebuild actual society in a new one with different infrastructures etc, definitively not tomorrow. That's the point.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#209

Post by tempnow987 »

orwin wrote: post #188
tempnow987 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angela Merkal called this a destruction of national property, and they (CDU) extended life of plants 8-14 years. There were 17 plants at the time. Total production that has been shutdown (baseload power) is around 19,689MW now post fukushima. They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? It's kind of mind boggling how much was shut down - the problem this has caused for electrification in germany…

it was 21cts/kwH last year (but sold 18cts to EDF own competitors, the liberalizations laws in europe make no sense) so i guess less than half that price.

My pricing was in US Dollars, so the french cost (if in euros) would be 24 cents or so. Still an amazing difference.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#210

Post by jacquesm »

tempnow987 wrote: post #207
jacquesm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? Germany has 5.3 GW of installed solar, how can you be off by a factor of 1200?

Sorry - yes, should be 5,800MW. They produced 51Twh/365/24 = 5.8GW in avg delivery. Nuclear generated it's power around the clock. I'm not sure solar is covering the evening peaks and the prices for electricity make going to things like heat pumps and electric dryers much more expensive than you'd expect in germany so the economic case for electrification in germany has started to run way way behind the case in other…

The idea that baseload can only be provided with nuclear or with fossil fuels has long been debunked.
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