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Inside Putin's Circle

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Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#201

Post by petre »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #81
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior…

But Putin and Co don't seem to have the tools to create a dynamic economy or a disciplined society. They may admire China; they can't follow the pattern.

They're a mafia and a bad one at that. Russia will become a Chinese satellite just like Kazahstan and Mongolia. It was probably going to anyway, but Putin just made sure of that when he attacked Ukraine. At least China had a mechanism for continuation of power, which Russia doesn't appear to have. What happens if Putin dies or is toppled? They'll put the next NATO paranoid FSB boss in charge? Compared to the Gorbachev era USSR they look like a bunch of juveniles playing with nukes they've inherited from their parents.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#203

Post by watwut »

benatkin wrote: post #82
watwut wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or anything.

A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the same way the unlicense is a license. I think that undercover or plaincloth…

Afaik, mafia does not require gun and holster on you typically. Plus, in situation where you have to have one, it is closer to requirement to have a tool with you then dress code.

I don't understand why the need to twist mafia into dress code group. Russian mafia is know entity, so is albanian one. Ukraine mafia exists too. It is just that, dress code is not what would be associated with them.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#204

Post by throwaway290 »

jacquesm wrote: post #165
hurflmurfl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this once, I want to contribute a "view from the inside" on how things work in Russia [in my opinion]. Sure, some people are hoodwinked by the propaganda. However, a weird misunderstanding is that "if they new what the Truth was, they would surely relent". From what I've gathered growing up in Russia, that's not quite the case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here have a very apathetic view on politics. In…

I'll make it easier: it requires a lot more mental fortitude to observe that the country that nominally represents you is engaging in something abhorrent so the mind wants to believe the lies, because they are more comfortable. That is why propaganda is so efficient.

I suspect you are mixing concerns.

For people who ended up supporting the war, yes. Propaganda worked, because constantly filtering misinformation is not exactly conducive to a normal life. Trust is the default mode of operation for a human who did not grow up in adverse conditions.

But grandparent seemed to refer to people who actually live such a life. People who do not support the government and are preparing for the worst. They distrust everything, they see that innocent people are dying and country is headed towards extreme times, but they treat it as impossible to change. This is pretty bleak.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#205

Post by rnd0 »

pstuart wrote: post #125
khuey wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Chinese model" is fundamentally underwritten by exporting vast quantities of goods to the West which Putin just blew up any hope of doing.

Other than fossil fuels and vodka, what does Russia have to offer the world?

Malware, pirate software havens, hacking organizations?

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#206

Post by justsomehnguy »

richardknop wrote: post #166
just-ok wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“sila” is strength, not power. Power is “vlast.”

Are you sure about that? I know Google Translate says "vlast" but I speak a Slavic language and "vlast" means motherhood/home in my language. Could be just the online translation not being accurate?

> Google Translate

Thanks for the laugh. An automated translation tools, especially dumbed down online ones, never work right because they don't have a context or a means to provide it.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0#Russ...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8...

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#207

Post by rnd0 »

stickfigure wrote: post #188
netsharc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Putin will only surrender after he's expended everything he's got, and among "everything he's got" includes several thousand nuclear missiles...

There are probably many people between Putin and the actual ignitors on ICBM rocket engines. This safety mechanism worked at least once.

>This safety mechanism worked at least once.

Generations ago. In essentially a different, more civilized world.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#208

Post by benatkin »

watwut wrote: post #203
benatkin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the same way the unlicense is a license. I think that undercover or plaincloth…

Afaik, mafia does not require gun and holster on you typically. Plus, in situation where you have to have one, it is closer to requirement to have a tool with you then dress code. I don't understand why the need to twist mafia into dress code group. Russian mafia is know entity, so is albanian one. Ukraine mafia exists too. It is just that, dress code is not what would be associated with them.

Point taken. I retract my statements. I think it is possible to have a dress code for under cover policing. I guess the only thing left is that I think that a dress code is not the same as a uniform, and that an undercover operation could have a dress code similar to a nightclub, where there are rules but no specific products that have to be worn.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#209

Post by jacquesm »

yucky wrote: post #191
jacquesm wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's just that he happens to allow you and others to do what you like about it: trumpet all over that 'the West' caused Russia's invasion into Ukraine. When in fact if you follow that line of thought it was Hitlers mom who caused World War II. The only person responsible for the invasion into Ukraine is Putin, it was entirely optional, no matter who predicted that it would happen. Also: there is a substantial num…

It doesn't take much imagination to think what the US would do if China began to make a "special pact" with Mexico. The US would very aggressively put that to an end, one way or another. This is essentially the same. Of course if we continue to coax the expansion of NATO (ie the international arm of the US military) onto the Russian border it will cause problems. Why would we ever pretend otherwise?

> It doesn't take much imagination to think what the US would do if China began to make a "special pact" with Mexico.

Shall we stick to the world as it is? Also, that's a pretty bad analogy, and no, it is not 'essentially the same'.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#210

Post by jagrsw »

polishdude20 wrote: post #180
richardknop wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? I know Google Translate says "vlast" but I speak a Slavic language and "vlast" means motherhood/home in my language. Could be just the online translation not being accurate?

In Polish, Sila is strength as well.

Technically (physically) it's force (as in SI's F).
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