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Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

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Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#201

Post by goodpoint »

zucker42 wrote: post #136
goodpoint wrote: post #81

Is it Open Hardware? Where are the schematics? If not, is it really that different than a thinkpad?

I recall a recent HN post about reverse engineering a thinkpad EC in order to get around battery DRM. With framework that would be doubly unnecessary because the EC firmware is open source. Also they open source stuff having to do with their add on modules. Plus, I'd wager a guess that Intel/AMD make you sign an NDA that would probably rule an open mainboard (I don't know this for sure). What may need to happen to ge…

> strike a balance

Calling it "balance" is a big stretch when all the important hardware is closed and there are no independent 3rd parties selling replacement parts.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#202

Post by omdv »

andi999 wrote: post #169
omdv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Linux? Yes. Changing the mode is just a matter of changing one line in one file. But getting hibernate to actually work is a bit of hassle, especially if you have any kind of encryption or non-standard file system. This said - I managed to get mine working on encrypted Btrfs.

What linux distro do you use? I always encountered the problem that after doing some work to get things going everything had to be redone after the next upgrade. Do you expect to have this issue?

I don't think upgrades change this configuration. I use Arch, which is a rolling release distro, so maybe this is a factor, but I didn't have any issues with upgrades, apart from one time when Framework released FW upgrade few months ago, which overwrote the boot record (took 15min to fix/recover), but that is a different story...

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#203

Post by emptysongglass »

aunty_helen wrote: post #9
sudders wrote: post #6

Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable (without battery drain issues) Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to a new machine. (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially on memory)

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

Has the 3.07 BIOS update fixed the overnight drain issue? [1]

[1] https://community.frame.work/t/bios-3-07-windows-10-and-11-a...

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#205

Post by na85 »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #200
na85 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think people got spoiled by Macbook touchpads- no, and I mean NO, Linux/Windows laptops out there have a comparable touchpad to the Macbook. What the Framework has is good for what's available. That's a dealbreaker for me. I'm not one of those people that carries around en external mouse and stuff. I bought a laptop for a reason. "Better than the hot garbage trackpad on my wife's Dell" is not good enough.

Then sad to say you will be stuck on Apple hardware for the foreseeable future. It's all a matter of preference, too- I used to have a newer Dell and thought the trackpad was totally fine.

Yeah, I've resigned myself to paying the apple tax for a while.

My wife has a recent (2019-vintage?) Dell XPS and I can't stand using it. It's just a horrible machine, despite Windows 10 supposedly being good.

- Sleep when closing the lid barely if ever works (netflix keeps playing, etc.)

- When it does sleep, the network doesn't work when you wake it back up (have to reconnect to wifi manually)

- Randomly spinning up the fans when it's supposed to be asleep. Wake it up to discover windows update decided to do whatever it does

- Trackpad just doesn't work well in general. Lousy palm rejection, fiddly multi-touch

- Camera is on the bottom of the monitor so everyone on zoom gets a great view of your knuckles, and up your nose.

It's like nobody at Dell dogfoods their own products. It's just a thoroughly shit-tier machine.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#206

Post by na85 »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #194
na85 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What programs are you using in such a fashion that simply having the program autostart at boot is not feasible? Developing an application in Lisp and there's all kinds of state in the REPL right now. Gotta pick kid up from preschool, just close the lid and it'll be exactly as I left it when I come home. Have a document open in an ad-hoc fashion (i.e. it's some PDF for work, not something on my autostart list) and I…

I guess I also don't understand the "closing the lid to leave" behavior as well. My laptop is integrated into a desktop setup with external monitors and it only gets closed when I actually take it out of the house. Otherwise screen locking and letting the monitors go sleep is fine with me

>My laptop is integrated into a desktop setup

Say no more. In my experience most of the "linux is fine for laptop usage" folks tend to be "laptop is actually a desktop that I rarely if ever take anywhere" folks also.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#208

Post by cutemonster »

smoldesu wrote: post #62
wilmore wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perf AVG, build eh What kind of MBP have you looked at? I agree with the ethos part, but the current M1 devices are pretty unique in the laptop space.

The performance is fantastic for a Macbook. The past 10 years was like watching Apple trapped in the laptop stone age, slowly realizing that replacing the ACPI tables on a laptop chip wasn't enough to change it's performance profile. With M1, they finally got to do what they wanted, albeit at the expense of x86. For the majority of Mac users that won't matter though, since Apple was never a particularly great steward…

> how hard Intel about-faced with Alder Lake and took Apple to the cleaners with a more bloated ISA, decidedly worse silicon

I don't understand. About-faced and take to the cleaners? (Not a native speaker)

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#209

Post by cutemonster »

uwuemu wrote: post #111
kinduff wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I'm seeing too, and I want to trust them. Can't wait for them to ship to my country, will order one for sure.

It's not about trust. They can have all good intentions in the world, but still fail. Because as Elon says: "The extreme difficulty of scaling production of new technology is not well understood. It’s 1000% to 10,000% harder than making a few prototypes. The machine that makes the machine is vastly harder than the machine itself."

Yes, for example, compare a Fab with a laptop

(Fab = Semiconductor fabrication plant, in case anyone didn't know)

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#210

Post by smoldesu »

cutemonster wrote: post #208
smoldesu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The performance is fantastic for a Macbook. The past 10 years was like watching Apple trapped in the laptop stone age, slowly realizing that replacing the ACPI tables on a laptop chip wasn't enough to change it's performance profile. With M1, they finally got to do what they wanted, albeit at the expense of x86. For the majority of Mac users that won't matter though, since Apple was never a particularly great steward…

> how hard Intel about-faced with Alder Lake and took Apple to the cleaners with a more bloated ISA, decidedly worse silicon I don't understand. About-faced and take to the cleaners? (Not a native speaker)

Ah, that's fine.

About-face is a military-derived term that means "to turn around quickly", as if commanded to.

"take to the cleaners" is a phrase usually used in sports that describes one team completely defeating another in one game/instance.

Hope that helps :p

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