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Laravel 9

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Re: Laravel 9

#201

Post by rahkiin »

pooya72 wrote: post #197
rahkiin wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find these decisions very hard. I switched from NodeJS to Spring Boot some 5 years ago when I found that the JS community moved faster than my clients could pay me to keep up to date. It has been great to make apps in Java with Thymeleaf, until I wanted to add dynamic frontends (a lot of advantages vanished) or when I tried to put Java on my CV. I am now considering switching to .NET and Angular. I would be ha…

Hey that's fantastic. I'd love to hear more! You went 5 years in the direct direction I want to go (Spring Boot + Thymeleaf). I'm a bit confused why you were having difficulty finding work with Java. Seems like there's a lot of Java work out there.

What I found, and I may have been wrong, is that there is a lot of Java work but if you look deeper it is hardcore Java EE with all thise 200 levels of Java that a lot of folks fear. And so do I. Even jobs that had Spring Boot asked for the JavaEE experience.

Could be just me though.

Re: Laravel 9

#202

Post by pan69 »

geenat wrote: post #194
pan69 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laravel and Drupal 7+ frankly ruined PHP for me. You don't have to use either. It's like saying something like "Britney Spears ruined music for me". Just go with Symfony and be done with it.

Management routinely influences stack choice based on hype level.

To be fair, developers seems to be very good at doing this themselves as well.

Re: Laravel 9

#203

Post by unfocussed_mike »

jw1224 wrote: post #163
_xnmw wrote: post #155

As a solo bootstrapped SaaS founder that literally relies on my app to pay my rent and food, I owe my sanity to Laravel. I've been doing web development for 10+ years. Nothing else understands the needs of a business owner AND solo programmer like Laravel does. I worked with Python (Flask/Django) for (4+ years) longer than I worked with Laravel (only 1 year), and yet I'm already 10x more productive in Laravel than I…

> As a solo bootstrapped SaaS founder that literally relies on my app to pay my rent and food, I owe my sanity to Laravel I’m in the same boat as you, and I couldn’t agree more. Your comment absolutely nails it. Laravel is a pleasure to work with. It takes care of 95% of everything I could ever need from a framework. And that last 5% is guaranteed to be covered by a high-quality community package. (Just look at Spati…

Medialibrary and the Stripe Webhooks library made me happy.

Re: Laravel 9

#204

Post by tomschlick »

XCSme wrote: post #180
tomschlick wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the app is pretty complex, so writing tests for every use-case and environment is impossible. No, you're just using the most expensive / error prone testing methods: doing it manually.

Maybe my comment was not clear, I do not specifically test the app and all its functionalities. I use the app myself on a daily basis anyway, which acts like a sort-of continuous integration testing program. I use the new version myself for a few days before publishing it, or provide it to some chosen beta testers that use the product anyway.

How in the world is that better than automated testing? Rather than being sure that a feature didn't break, you're taking the chance that you or a beta user is going to hit the bug and report it back correctly.

Re: Laravel 9

#205

Post by fendy3002 »

hparadiz wrote: post #161

I'm just now learning (week 2) Laravel after coming from using other custom frameworks for years. For the record I have my own framework with a fully featured ORM of it's own and 99% unit test coverage for said ORM which is a fork of one my friend started 15 years ago and I have contributed to for several years. We started it before Laravel existed and in many ways it's exactly like Laravel. [ https://github.com/Dive…

> - .env file - just use PHP files for configs which opens many possibilities like inheritable config setups. Instead of just dev or staging or prod you would instead have main, dev, production where main is env variables that don't change between environments.

Uh what, .env is standard practices for many languages even in docker. And Laravel doesn't prohibit you to extend the config folder with your custom settings. You can easily do both.

And for anyone who don't know yet, don't commit your configuration to the repo.

Re: Laravel 9

#206

Post by lowercased »

hparadiz wrote: post #161

I'm just now learning (week 2) Laravel after coming from using other custom frameworks for years. For the record I have my own framework with a fully featured ORM of it's own and 99% unit test coverage for said ORM which is a fork of one my friend started 15 years ago and I have contributed to for several years. We started it before Laravel existed and in many ways it's exactly like Laravel. [ https://github.com/Dive…

> "All routes defined in one single file instead of procedurally in each controller (performance wise this is terrible cause you're running a bunch of regular expressions on each and every request. augh)"

Have you timed it? And do you have a flexible alternative measurably faster that can drop in/ Are you taking in to account route caching?

Not everything has to be in one file. RouteServiceProvider gives you a place where you can programmatically determine which route files, if any, you want to process.

> File structure doesn't adhere to PHP league standard

So what? And... "all php code should in in src or tests..." That doesn't even seem to be documented anywhere. PHP code could live in /config (like... you seem to want above?) - but 'config' isn't /src or /tests.

Re: Laravel 9

#207

Post by yurishimo »

hparadiz wrote: post #161

I'm just now learning (week 2) Laravel after coming from using other custom frameworks for years. For the record I have my own framework with a fully featured ORM of it's own and 99% unit test coverage for said ORM which is a fork of one my friend started 15 years ago and I have contributed to for several years. We started it before Laravel existed and in many ways it's exactly like Laravel. [ https://github.com/Dive…

I'll admit I'm not an expert, but using `php artisan route:cache` does provide some performance boost. About 5x in real world scenarios when dealing with very large route files.

Article with more info: https://voltagead.com/laravel-route-caching-for-improved-per...

Re: Laravel 9

#208

Post by yurishimo »

jstummbillig wrote: post #184
e12e wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think either is objectivly better - if for no other reason than ruby and php being quite different languages. Personally I much prefer ruby - but I could perhaps see myself reaching for Laravel for a project depending on requirements.

What requirements does Laravel meet that Rails does not?

Marginally cheaper/easier to deploy. Very robust queue system built in. Where you'd pay for Sidekiq in Rails, that's included in Laravel. Auth is also more streamlined since Laravel takes a stance on what the default is unlike Rails (though I admit most people just use Devise).

I think PHP is still faster as a language? There are also tools available now to run Laravel apps on serverless infrastructure if that's something you don't want to mess with.

I'll admit I'm biased and haven't spent much time with Rails outside of a hello world and various podcasts.

Re: Laravel 9

#209

Post by mgkimsal »

rahkiin wrote: post #201
pooya72 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey that's fantastic. I'd love to hear more! You went 5 years in the direct direction I want to go (Spring Boot + Thymeleaf). I'm a bit confused why you were having difficulty finding work with Java. Seems like there's a lot of Java work out there.

What I found, and I may have been wrong, is that there is a lot of Java work but if you look deeper it is hardcore Java EE with all thise 200 levels of Java that a lot of folks fear. And so do I. Even jobs that had Spring Boot asked for the JavaEE experience. Could be just me though.

I don't think it's just you. I came off a java gig about couple years back - typical enterprise... stuff. Lots of legacy stuff from 10-15 years ago that few people knew anything about, mixed docs, some tests, but not useful to learn from. Even pre-covid, far too few people for the size of the codebase and where they were trying to go. I started in October, I was given a ticket in November that someone else - who had left months earlier - estimated at '40 hours' in May of that year. This was my first 'task' at the company, and ... it took way more than 40 hours. It took 40 calendar hours to get a meeting with the PM to actually walk me through how to set up the bug the ticket was about. Some bigwig threw up to my manager that I was 'over budget' and 'threatened their client relationship' because I was taking so long (on a ticket that had been sitting around 5 months before it was estimated, then another 6 months before someone started working on it). They routinely rejected requests for info on the issue, or access to servers/data/etc. So... I went part time then, and moved in to something else pretty quickly. I know not all Java shops are like that, but it was like living in an enterprise cliché.

Re: Laravel 9

#210

Post by omnimus »

munk-a wrote: post #95
masterof0 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checkout Laracasts, Jeffrey Way is pretty good explaining things. I don't use Laravel (or PHP at all),but I do like his video tutorials a lot. I say this, because maybe is you the docs, or you cant find a way of doing something, etc...

When learning cool bird facts I really enjoy listening to people talk - but when trying to debug or learn a new framework I absolutely insist on written documentation. I need to be able to re-read paragraphs or segue to other topics briefly and then return which is incompatible with anything audio-visual. The existence of Laracasts was actually a strong disincentive for me to go with Laravel and I've been quite happy…

So you decided not to use framework because there is website with video courses about it? Interesting reasoning. Isnt there website with videos about the other framework?
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