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The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

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Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#201

Post by JohnBooty »

bloqs wrote: post #188
kuhewa wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppressed group. I think the issue, as illustrated in replies to you, is that many people's only exposure to conversations about cultural appropriation are extreme examples brought to their attention by someone seeking to highlight how absurd the…

Do you have any examples?

Sure. Plenty in the replies here; just scroll a bit.

Folks claiming the idea of "cultural appropriation" is absurd, because they heard that "eating sushi" or "getting a deep tan if you're white" are "cultural appropriation" and so therefore the whole idea is dumb.

It's about as valid as claiming that Linux users are maniacs because hey, I heard there was this one creepy dude at a conference once and he used Linux.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#203

Post by motohagiography »

ericb wrote: post #99
JohnBooty wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely, though, I also don't feel like this sort of (awesome) thing is what anybody is talking about when they discuss cultural appropriation! Cross-pollination like this is, I dare say, universally loved and recognized as vital. Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppresse…

> and a prison guard stealing their music That's a pretty tortured metaphor. Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music? What if cultural borrowing is the societal precursor to acceptance and integration?

I thought this was a really elegant summary and powerful metaphor that helped me understand the perspective of people who believe it's a problem, even though it didn't change my position and attitude toward its applicability. The idea of "civilization" as a prison (babylon) is a very rich idea in rastafarian culture on whose shoulders dancehall stands.

If you know dancehall and even an outsiders view of rasta culture, I read the article as using a bit of trivia as an attempt at a kind of ideological castration of dancehall music by retelling its origins and attributing credit for it not to a black rastafarian man in Jamaica, but to an asian woman in Japan. Rastafarian masculinity is problematic for american black progressives, and the article seemed consitent with their cultural unmooring project.

While the objection to the metaphor a reasonable challenge - that the metaphor has underlying complexity doesn't diminish it for me.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#204

Post by JohnBooty »

hn_ta_234465 wrote: post #187
JohnBooty wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not super relevant but: my understanding is that they were of partial Native American descent. Reason why I say it's not super relevant in this particular case? As a white person, it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to speak for Native Americans or any other group. But it would be perfectly OK for me to say e.g. "hey, I think a lot of Native Americans aren't cool with white people making 'dream catc…

This line of thinking seems so bizarre to me, perhaps because I'm not from the USA. You basically say that the race of people should govern what they do or not (make a specific art) or decides the truth value of their claims (you can't say X as a white person, but a native American can). It seems like in the quest of combating racism, you just ended up in a form of racism that's just inverted the direction of the pre…

Suppose you’re my coworker.

I can’t really speak for you. I don’t know your opinions! You didn’t ask me to be your spokesperson. Cool? Makes sense?

But, I remember that one time you said you’re allergic to nuts.

Next year, somebody’s making cookies for the office. He asks what kind of cookies everybody likes. He’s thinking of making macadamia nut cookies. You’re out of the office that day.

“Oh, I’m not sure what kind of cookies hn_ta_234465 likes,” I say. “But I do remember that he’s allergic to nuts.”

Does that make sense? I’m not your spokesman and it would be weird/rude to put words in your mouth. But it makes 100% sense for me to refer to something you’ve already said.

Simple.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#205

Post by boomlinde »

winternett wrote: post #47

As a musician that also does IT work, the part where copyright/law suit was mentioned troubled me a bit... Artists aren't profiting massively from sampling. Even from making music in general. Actually, most artists don't get paid at all when uncleared samples are involved, and especially because of the predatory system of music publication. The ideal like they are the ones who should be sued worries me about a wrong…

> Otherwise, we should probably credit Ableton and a bunch of synth plug-ins for pretty much every preset used on almost every dance track made now...

If there is one easily identifiable preset that is present in literally hundreds of songs, I'm not sure why it should be so offensive to recognize it as an innovation in itself. For example, the DX7 electric piano preset, the "Lately bass" on the TX81Z (which in turn was obviously inspired by the bass sound in a Janet Jackson song), or The Ultimate Soundtracker, of which derivatives have been used for literally tens of thousands of songs.

I don't see how recognizing the influence of these things is somehow disrespectful or that the recognition somehow discredits all the other innovation involved. As an extreme example, can't I say that the TB-303 revolutionized house music without discrediting artists like Phuture? To recognize that the technology was important and influential is somehow the same thing as saying that the artists and their ingenuity and innovation is not? Because I think the syrup is important, I'm ignoring or discrediting the pancakes?

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#206

Post by chrisjc »

Lapsa wrote: post #182
chrisjc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick note to those that were potentially triggered when they read "dubstep"... Early dubstep was based on two-step and garage music, while at the same time heavily based on dub and reggae. Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4 Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to u…

Coki - Old Hope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9az72epXweo Skream - Rutten https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOttZSnzG7s Burial - Untrue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os9DYRZyk-w

Coki is just amazing. Although some might consider most of his stuff "Tear Out".

Red Eye - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yKxn54lXW8

Goblin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd3s_jubB_s

Spongebob - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpc817U_R4

Burial is my go-to focus music... it's so atmospherical that it immerses me another place where I can really focus, and pump out my work. Specifically a couple of mixes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6OMwz2uXGM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=286BRp1iDNs

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#207

Post by chrisjc »

iamacyborg wrote: post #190
chrisjc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick note to those that were potentially triggered when they read "dubstep"... Early dubstep was based on two-step and garage music, while at the same time heavily based on dub and reggae. Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4 Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to u…

Goth Trad's boiler room is so much fun. There aren't too many folks who'd mix dubstep with drone and rhythmic noise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vN9i0BDIR8

Never seen/heard this... looks and sounds amazing so far.

Seems like there has always been a strong connection between Japan and Dub music, and may even be the same for dubstep (the original, non-"brostep").

Same is true for other places like Brazil, France, UK (obviously). I've heard that Dub music isn't or never was very popular in Jamaica, and it was always other places around the world that really embraced it and sound system culture. Maybe even keeping it alive.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#208

Post by chrisjc »

lelandfe wrote: post #77
chrisjc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick note to those that were potentially triggered when they read "dubstep"... Early dubstep was based on two-step and garage music, while at the same time heavily based on dub and reggae. Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4 Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to u…

Nice to see some heads on HN! Great list, and RIP The Spaceape. You can find proper sound system culture in the states, though not much is happening since COVID. Tsunami Bass has an enormous PA and Reconstrvct hopefully will be back one day. Analog in Brooklyn did have a whopping home built system but it was sold off and the club is under new management these days. Here's a glimpse into what this sort of stuff is lik…

> and RIP The Spaceape

I really feel this loss in many ways. I've yet to find anyone that can match his prophetic lyrics, ominous voice, and Jamaican patois (combined with Kode9s and The Bug's music). Although I find all of the Spaceape material indefatigable to listen to. Self titled "Spaceape", Backwards, Kingston, etc.

So young... Very sad indeed :(

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#209

Post by quacked »

JohnBooty wrote: post #204
hn_ta_234465 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of thinking seems so bizarre to me, perhaps because I'm not from the USA. You basically say that the race of people should govern what they do or not (make a specific art) or decides the truth value of their claims (you can't say X as a white person, but a native American can). It seems like in the quest of combating racism, you just ended up in a form of racism that's just inverted the direction of the pre…

Suppose you’re my coworker. I can’t really speak for you. I don’t know your opinions! You didn’t ask me to be your spokesperson. Cool? Makes sense? But, I remember that one time you said you’re allergic to nuts. Next year, somebody’s making cookies for the office. He asks what kind of cookies everybody likes. He’s thinking of making macadamia nut cookies. You’re out of the office that day. “Oh, I’m not sure what kind…

So if my fiancee, who is part native, says it's okay to make and sell native-style dream catchers, I can just ignore your friends when you say it's not okay?

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#210

Post by MockObject »

quacked wrote: post #209
JohnBooty wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you’re my coworker. I can’t really speak for you. I don’t know your opinions! You didn’t ask me to be your spokesperson. Cool? Makes sense? But, I remember that one time you said you’re allergic to nuts. Next year, somebody’s making cookies for the office. He asks what kind of cookies everybody likes. He’s thinking of making macadamia nut cookies. You’re out of the office that day. “Oh, I’m not sure what kind…

So if my fiancee, who is part native, says it's okay to make and sell native-style dream catchers, I can just ignore your friends when you say it's not okay?

This speaks to a fatal flaw with the concept of cultural appropriation. Ok, so a "white" person can't "speak for Native Americans", but a Native American can? Can any, or just certain ones? Who wins if they disagree?
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